ApolloHoax.net - Was Jesus Christ God?

LunarOrbit
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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #540 on Jan 6, 2010, 2:44pm »

Jan 6, 2010, 12:27pm, Jason wrote:

Does everything that "everyone" believes have objective truth?

Yes, in reality everything can be categorized into "True" or "False". The fact that we disagree on what the truth is, or just don't know the truth, doesn't mean there isn't a truth.

There is a God. True or False?

I say we don't know the answer to that question, but I lean towards "false". You believe the answer is "true" but you can't prove it. There is an answer, we just don't agree on what it is and likely never will.

« Last Edit: Jan 6, 2010, 2:46pm by LunarOrbit »

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Jason
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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #541 on Jan 6, 2010, 4:19pm »

Jan 6, 2010, 2:33pm, LunarOrbit wrote:

Religious people have to somehow diminish or knock holes in reality so that their beliefs seem less absurd.

In order for Jason to convince us that his personal religious experiences weren't imagined he feels he needs to show that none of reality is any more "real".

Jason is basically saying that I can't prove that reality isn't just a dream.

Actually my argument is more along the lines of saying that what seems at first fantastic isn't really all that farfetched, since our perception of what is real and what isn't is not as in line with reality as we often like to think it is.

I'm not arguing that reality is a dream. Rather I am arguing that we are almost asleep, and our perception of it is rather fuzzy and distracted by our own preconceptions.

And no, I don't have to take this tact to make myself feel better.

Quote:

And yes, I do think that when it comes to things that are not matters of opinion consensus does matter. If everyone agrees that gravity is real then it's ridiculous to claim it isn't. If everyone agrees that ice is cold who in their right mind would claim otherwise?

If everyone agrees that the Earth is flat and at the center of the universe and that all the heavens circle it then obviously Gallileo isn't in his right mind, right?
If everyone in town agrees that goody Morrow cursed my milk cow then she must really be a witch, right?

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'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?'
'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'

Jason
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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #542 on Jan 6, 2010, 4:21pm »

Jan 6, 2010, 2:44pm, LunarOrbit wrote:

Jan 6, 2010, 12:27pm, Jason wrote:

Does everything that "everyone" believes have objective truth?

Yes, in reality everything can be categorized into "True" or "False". The fact that we disagree on what the truth is, or just don't know the truth, doesn't mean there isn't a truth.

You didn't really answer what I was asking, but I agree with your answer.

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'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?'
'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'

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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #543 on Jan 6, 2010, 4:55pm »

You know, I was talking all this over with the manager of my apartment complex last night. She is, Gods love her, nowhere near as well-read on the subject as I; I know more of and more about the Bible, though she's Christian and I no longer am--and when I was, I was in a sect not expected to read as much of the Bible as Protestants are. So I think her opinion is vaguely Centrist Christian, were I to pin a label on her.

She tithes. Not to a particular church, but to charity. She and her husband give ten percent of their monthly income, not a huge amount, toward helping others. She believes that her life has gotten better since then, and she believes it means that the tithing is responsible. However, she also freely acknowledges that she doesn't have any evidence that it's true. She even made clear that she didn't just mean objective evidence. She meant evidence at all. It could be luck or coincidence, she said.

So if she can acknowledge that, even while believing it in her heart, it honestly isn't that difficult. I love her. She's a total sweetheart. But she doesn't, shall we say, have the most philosophical or scientific bent. She probably never thought it out at all until yesterday. I respect her a great deal for her honesty--and lack of arrogance, that she doesn't believe that what she feels is objective truth.

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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #544 on Jan 6, 2010, 5:36pm »

Quote:

Yes, in reality everything can be categorized into "True" or "False".

False.

You forget the category "not provable." This entire thread is a wrong-headed attempt to reduce the universe to True or False.

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Jason
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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #545 on Jan 6, 2010, 5:57pm »

Jan 6, 2010, 4:55pm, gillianren wrote:

You know, I was talking all this over with the manager of my apartment complex last night. She is, Gods love her, nowhere near as well-read on the subject as I; I know more of and more about the Bible, though she's Christian and I no longer am--and when I was, I was in a sect not expected to read as much of the Bible as Protestants are. So I think her opinion is vaguely Centrist Christian, were I to pin a label on her.

She tithes. Not to a particular church, but to charity. She and her husband give ten percent of their monthly income, not a huge amount, toward helping others. She believes that her life has gotten better since then, and she believes it means that the tithing is responsible. However, she also freely acknowledges that she doesn't have any evidence that it's true. She even made clear that she didn't just mean objective evidence. She meant evidence at all. It could be luck or coincidence, she said.

So if she can acknowledge that, even while believing it in her heart, it honestly isn't that difficult. I love her. She's a total sweetheart. But she doesn't, shall we say, have the most philosophical or scientific bent. She probably never thought it out at all until yesterday. I respect her a great deal for her honesty--and lack of arrogance, that she doesn't believe that what she feels is objective truth.

I don't have any really strong evidence that paying my tithing helps me either, but it hasn't hurt, and I do have stronger evidence of God's hand in other actions.

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'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?'
'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'

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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #546 on Jan 6, 2010, 6:15pm »

Jan 6, 2010, 5:36pm, Apollo Gnomon wrote:

Quote:

Yes, in reality everything can be categorized into "True" or "False".

False.

You forget the category "not provable." This entire thread is a wrong-headed attempt to reduce the universe to True or False.

Just because something is unprovable doesn't mean it's neither true or false.

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Ginnie

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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #547 on Jan 6, 2010, 9:14pm »

Jan 6, 2010, 5:36pm, Apollo Gnomon wrote:

Quote:

Yes, in reality everything can be categorized into "True" or "False".

False.

You forget the category "not provable." This entire thread is a wrong-headed attempt to reduce the universe to True or False.

No, the thread started out asking perhaps was a dumb question - by me, no less.
So lets sum it up then, shall we?
25% of those who voted believe that Jesus was God.
56% believe that he wasn't
3% voted "maybe"
3% voted "don't know"
and 12.5 % couldn't care less.

Since I don't believe in God, I surely do not believe Jesus was God. Even when I was a Catholic, I had my doubts.
Regarding the papyrus artifact - It seems that Egyptologists agree in their assessment of what information was on it. It did not have any similarities to Joseph Smith's "translation".
The last part of this thread seems to be a debate over whether God exists or not, and Jason seems to have the dubious task of having to prove He does exist. This is an impossible mission, I'd say, so maybe it should be left alone or at least attended to in its own thread.
Same with the papyrus issue - in its own thread.
I think LO that this one has been exhausted and meandered way off its origins and perhaps should be closed.

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Re: Was Jesus Christ God?
« Reply #548 on Jan 6, 2010, 9:23pm »

Jan 6, 2010, 5:57pm, Jason wrote:

Jan 6, 2010, 4:55pm, gillianren wrote:

You know, I was talking all this over with the manager of my apartment complex last night. She is, Gods love her, nowhere near as well-read on the subject as I; I know more of and more about the Bible, though she's Christian and I no longer am--and when I was, I was in a sect not expected to read as much of the Bible as Protestants are. So I think her opinion is vaguely Centrist Christian, were I to pin a label on her.

She tithes. Not to a particular church, but to charity. She and her husband give ten percent of their monthly income, not a huge amount, toward helping others. She believes that her life has gotten better since then, and she believes it means that the tithing is responsible. However, she also freely acknowledges that she doesn't have any evidence that it's true. She even made clear that she didn't just mean objective evidence. She meant evidence at all. It could be luck or coincidence, she said.

So if she can acknowledge that, even while believing it in her heart, it honestly isn't that difficult. I love her. She's a total sweetheart. But she doesn't, shall we say, have the most philosophical or scientific bent. She probably never thought it out at all until yesterday. I respect her a great deal for her honesty--and lack of arrogance, that she doesn't believe that what she feels is objective truth.

I don't have any really strong evidence that paying my tithing helps me either, but it hasn't hurt, and I do have stronger evidence of God's hand in other actions.

I don't tithe - I can't afford too, but we do give whenever we can to charities etc. Perhaps more importantly I follow a rule in life - don't charge money for anything, give it away to someone who needs it. I've given away cars, appliances, tv's , stereos, clothing, furniture, my time etc. Most people do these things to various extents. Maybe it just makes me "feel better" but in the back of my mind there's a hint of something supernatural that rewards those who give - I don't mean in a monetary way - but how you are treated in this world by others. I know this conflicts my views on God perhaps, but sometimes I "lapse" and am inclined to believe in some "force" that exists in the Universe that cannot be explained. But calling it "God" stereotypes it and diminishes it.

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