Topic: Doomsayer Environmentalists are Always Wrong (Read 17,197 times)
archer17 Guest
Re: Doomsayer Environmentalists are Always Wrong « Reply #480 on Jul 9, 2010, 2:59pm »
I already went on record here as to my POV on this topic so I won't bore y'all with a rehash.
Regarding the tree-ring "divergence" as it's sometimes called I've read that while higher latitude trees have shown a divergence with temperature trends since the 1960s, lower latitude trees have not. It has been proposed by some that anthropogenic mechanisms are to blame for this:
Joined: May 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 5,579 Location: Terra / Solomani Rim 1827
Re: Doomsayer Environmentalists are Always Wrong « Reply #485 on Jul 12, 2010, 11:17am »
"We have 25 years or so invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it[?]" -East Anglia CRU director Jones to Australian scientist Warrick Hughes in 2005.
Can you find the basic problem with this statement?
'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?' 'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'
'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?' 'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'
Well, it's not a very scientific approach is it. I would have thought he would relish the thought of another scientist evaluating his data.
Unless there is plenty wrong with it.
Bingo. Science is all about trying to prove the data wrong.
Not quite. Data is just Data, it's not really right or wrong, it's merely information.
What the scientific method is based about is the falisfying of the hypothesis created from the data. This can be done by showing that there is a collection issue with the data so the data may not be what it claims to be, but is more often done by showing that the data doesn't support the proposed hypothesis, or actually supports an opposing hypothesis better.
But yes, refusing to release data because someone is trying to show you wrong is rather unscientific.
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
"On two occasions, I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
The findings--the work of over 300 scientists from 160 different research organizations in 48 countries--analyzed "10 key climate indicators that all point to the same finding: the scientific evidence that our world is warming is unmistakable," according to a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) press release dated July 28.
OK, that was a tiny bit snarky, but you have to forgive me. The evidence of a warming planet has been around about 20 years now, and despite what you hear from some quarters about global cooling, that evidence has continued to strengthen. What's important about a new report titled "State of the Climate in 2009," just released by NOAA's National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) in the form of a 224-page supplement to the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society is that it shows exactly how the planet is warming.
Here's a video by my Climate Central colleague Heidi Cullen on what the report contains:
Unlike the approximately semi-decadal reports from the IPCC, that's pretty much all State of the Climate claims to do. "This report is not about attribution or projection," said co-author Walt Meier, of the National Snow and Ice Data Center, in a press conference earlier today. That means that it doesn't make any claims about humans being the cause of much of the warming (although the authors clearly recognize that we are) and doesn't project that the world will keep warming (although they clearly understand that it will). It's all about the actual measurements, from, as the NCDC's Tom Karl said at the press conference, "weather stations, satellites, buoys, ships at sea, observatories, field expeditions, submersibles. Every bit of monitoring capability we can get our hands on."
The result is a portrait of a warming planet, from the stratosphere to the oceans. The latter, it turns out, is where 93.4% of the extra heat trapped by greenhouse gases has been stored—an ominous sign, because that much of that heat will eventually be released back into the atmosphere. "There's a substantial amount of energy running around in there," Karl said.
"We have 25 years or so invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it[?]" -East Anglia CRU director Jones to Australian scientist Warrick Hughes in 2005.
Can you find the basic problem with this statement?
1st google hit on Warrick Hughes:
Quote:
Warwick Hughes free lance science research Warwick Hughes free lance reasearch into examples of official poor quality science underpinning even worse green stained Government policies. www.warwickhughes.com/ - Cached - Similar Melbourne water supply issues 2004 Sydney water supply Tropospheric Ozone and urban ozone NZ Climate Truth newsletters by Dr ...
Perth Water Brisbane water supply The 2002 drought in Australia Cubbie Station issues More results from warwickhughes.com »
Freelance scientist? Uh, yeah. Okay. I don't think I'd release my data to him either
« Last Edit: Jul 29, 2010, 11:11am by Apollo Gnomon »
Freelance scientist? Uh, yeah. Okay. I don't think I'd release my data to him either
So you think scientists should get to choose who has a chance to disprove their theories? "You don't get to tell me I'm wrong unless I agree to let you"?
'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?' 'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'
Freelance scientist? Uh, yeah. Okay. I don't think I'd release my data to him either
I've actually know a man who described himself as a freelance scientist. He did consulting for several companies and used "freelance" to indicate he was not affiliated with a university. Much as a journalist will call himself "freelance" to indicate he is not representing a specific news organization.
Similar caveats seem to apply to both types of freelancers, but neither can be dismissed just because of the lack of affiliation.
Joined: May 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 5,579 Location: Terra / Solomani Rim 1827
Re: Doomsayer Environmentalists are Always Wrong « Reply #494 on Sept 2, 2010, 4:15pm »
Not only are the doomsayers always wrong, but sometimes their overheated (pun intended) rhetoric has real consequences. James Lee was killed by police yesterday after he took hostages in the Discovery Chanel's lobby and threatened to bomb the building if the Discovery Channel didn't give in to his demands:
Quote:
All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it. . . . The world needs TV shows that DEVELOP solutions to the problems that humans are causing, not stupify [sic] the people into destroying the world. Not encouraging them to breed more environmentally harmful humans. Saving the environment and the remaning [sic] species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels. The humans? The planet does not need humans.
Where did Mr. Lee get these ideas?
Quote:
Court records show that Lee was arrested Feb. 21, 2008, on the sixth day of a protest at the Discovery building. At the time of his conviction in March 2008, he was identified as being from San Diego. Police were called to the scene when a crowd that had gathered began growing "unruly" as Lee threw thousands of dollars of cash into the air, some of it still in shrink-wrapped packages, police said at the time. (Lee was found not guilty of littering.) Lee said at the time that he experienced an ''awakening" when he watched former Vice President Al Gore's environmental documentary ''An Inconvenient Truth."
Perhaps Mr. Gore should take this incident as a caution to turn the rhetoric down a bit, and perhaps he should avoid things like advocating civil disobedience in the cause of fighting Global Warming, or praising the efforts of thousands of angry protestors like Lee was a few years ago, while calling those who don't believe him "morally reprehensible".
As Mr. Gore's one time boss Bill Clinton said: "There can be real consequences when what you say animates people who do things you would never do...You can attack the politics. Criticize their policies. Don't demonize them, and don't say things that will encourage violent opposition."
'How shall a man judge what to do in such times?' 'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves, and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'
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