The pictures are taken from different angles and Schmitt moved around when he was taking them. If you read the relevant ALSJ page where Cernan and Schmitt are taking each other's pictures by the flag, it was difficult to get both the Earth and an astronaut in the photographs and it didn't always work when they tried it. http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.alsepoff.html#1182518
On the second photo, the astronaut is closer; but of course, the hill is not closer, because it's too far away for the photographe's move to change the distance to the hill. However, the hill gets lower on the photo, so logically, we should still see the earth on the photo. In case, you would think that the earth has simply got out of the field of vision of the photograph, then I can talk about two photographs, AS17-134-20384 and AS17-134-20387, on which the earth can be seen; on the first photo, even if we don't see much of the hill, we still can see a bit of it, and it's enough to see that the earth is not above the same point of the hill, but above a very different point of it, and it's totally abnormal. If the sun is above a point of a hill, and you move a little, the sun will still be above the same point of the hill on the next photo.
Re: photos on NASA don't make sense « Reply #18 on Oct 26, 2010, 6:03am »
The only portion of the hill's peak visible in AS17-134-20384 is clearly behind Cerman's raised arm in -20387 -- in the first, you can see it's basically along a line from his shoulder to the corner of the flag. Also, comparing a line from the Earth to that peak against the terminator on the Earth, and comparing that to the obviously titled view in the second, the line would also have to run down to the area of his shoulder/arm.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I have to wonder why someone posts a confrontational question like this and then doesn't bother to respond to the answers. Did Fflame really want explanations, or was this another hoax believer saying, "The photos look strange to me, therefore they were faked and there's no point in discussing it further"?
The only portion of the hill's peak visible in AS17-134-20384 is clearly behind Cerman's raised arm in -20387 -- in the first, you can see it's basically along a line from his shoulder to the corner of the flag. Also, comparing a line from the Earth to that peak against the terminator on the Earth, and comparing that to the obviously titled view in the second, the line would also have to run down to the area of his shoulder/arm.
There's a continuity on the hill's edge. On AS17-134-20384, the earth is above a falling edge of the hill (on this photo, you can see the hill between the astronaut's body and his arm), and on AS17-134-20387, it's above a rising edge of it. It's very clear to me that the earth is not above the same point of the hill on the two photos.
Re: photos on NASA don't make sense « Reply #21 on Oct 26, 2010, 6:41am »
Can you also explain to me why on AS17-147-22525, we can see the reflection of the sun on the left of the visor, and the reflection of the lem on its right, and on the next photo AS17-134-22526, we can still see these reflections on the same locations on the visor...whereas the astronaut has turned between thse two photos? How do you explain this?
The pictures are taken from different angles and Schmitt moved around when he was taking them. If you read the relevant ALSJ page where Cernan and Schmitt are taking each other's pictures by the flag, it was difficult to get both the Earth and an astronaut in the photographs and it didn't always work when they tried it. http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a17/a17.alsepoff.html#1182518
On the second photo, the astronaut is closer; but of course, the hill is not closer, because it's too far away for the photographe's move to change the distance to the hill. However, the hill gets lower on the photo, so logically, we should still see the earth on the photo. In case, you would think that the earth has simply got out of the field of vision of the photograph, then I can talk about two photographs, AS17-134-20384 and AS17-134-20387, on which the earth can be seen; on the first photo, even if we don't see much of the hill, we still can see a bit of it, and it's enough to see that the earth is not above the same point of the hill, but above a very different point of it, and it's totally abnormal. If the sun is above a point of a hill, and you move a little, the sun will still be above the same point of the hill on the next photo.
Strangely I rotated AS17-134-20384 by 45 degrees to the left (84 is rotated about 35 degrees to the left and 87 about 10 degrees to the right) and the Earth and the mountain in both images line up pretty much perfectly. I have to wonder why you didn't bother doing this simple test yourself before posting.
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
"On two occasions, I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
Re: photos on NASA don't make sense « Reply #23 on Oct 26, 2010, 6:44am »
Can you explain me why on the photo of the LCM taken from the LEM on photo AS11-37-5445, the LCM is under the LEM (we see the moon behind the LCM) when it should be above, and why the LCM is vertical when it should be horizontal (it follows its orbit around the moon). There are really strange things in Apollo!
[quote author=inquisitivemind board=theories thread=2930 post=86609 time=1288084335] Strangely I rotated AS17-134-20384 by 45 degrees to the left (84 is rotated about 35 degrees to the left and 87 about 10 degrees to the right) and the Earth and the mountain in both images line up pretty much perfectly. I have to wonder why you didn't bother doing this simple test yourself before posting.
Why I didn't bother to make this simple test? I would have done it if it was making sense. This is 3D, this is not 2D. Could you show me your rotation on a picture, please? I'll also add that if you rotate, both the earth and the hill will rotate, they will not rotate independently one from another...unless the hill is really close.
Can you also explain to me why on AS17-147-22525, we can see the reflection of the sun on the left of the visor, and the reflection of the lem on its right, and on the next photo AS17-134-22526, we can still see these reflections on the same locations on the visor...whereas the astronaut has turned between thse two photos? How do you explain this?
You do realise that the visor is approximately spherical don't you?
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
"On two occasions, I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
Can you explain me why on the photo of the LCM taken from the LEM on photo AS11-37-5445, the LCM is under the LEM (we see the moon behind the LCM) when it should be above, and why the LCM is vertical when it should be horizontal (it follows its orbit around the moon). There are really strange things in Apollo!
The CM must point at the LM in order to dock and its orientation is independent of the orbit. Can you explain your assumptions that the CM should not be in this position or why its orientation is incorrect? Perhaps that information would help us give a more satisfactory answer.
Can you also explain to me why on AS17-147-22525, we can see the reflection of the sun on the left of the visor, and the reflection of the lem on its right, and on the next photo AS17-134-22526, we can still see these reflections on the same locations on the visor...whereas the astronaut has turned between thse two photos? How do you explain this?
You do realise that the visor is approximately spherical don't you?
Absolutely. In fact, it is not sperical, but half sperical. And it's not even half spherical, it's a portion of a half sphere. But it doesn't make any difference; even on a spherical shaped visor, when you turn it, reflections move on it. On these photos, the reflections I quoted ddon't move, they keep the same locations.
Can you explain me why on the photo of the LCM taken from the LEM on photo AS11-37-5445, the LCM is under the LEM (we see the moon behind the LCM) when it should be above, and why the LCM is vertical when it should be horizontal (it follows its orbit around the moon). There are really strange things in Apollo!
Really if you can't even get the abbreviations right then we should have to explain anything to you. First do your homework and learn about Apollo then come back and ask. (For your reference, the LM had the E dropped extremely early in the project and is just Lunar Module, while the CM, or more appropriately the CSM since in Lunar orbit the CM and SM were still attached, never had the word Lunar in it, so was never called the LCM.)
As to why, it has to do with two things, orbit shapes, and the fact that spaceships don't point in the direction of travel. Once you have learnt some orbital mechanics you might understand this.
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
"On two occasions, I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
You do realise that the visor is approximately spherical don't you?
Absolutely. In fact, it is not sperical, but half sperical. And it's not even half spherical, it's a portion of a half sphere. But it doesn't make any difference; even on a spherical shaped visor, when you turn it, reflections move on it. On these photos, the reflections I quoted ddon't move, they keep the same locations.
If you rotate a sphere about the same location the reflections remain static unless the reflected objects move also.
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
"On two occasions, I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)
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