Lost Bird Proves Apollo Inauthenticity « Thread Started on Jul 7, 2011, 2:25pm »
On the evening of 07/20/1969, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin allegedly piloted the LM Eagle, to what was to become the renown "Tranquility Base".
Most Americans would not be made aware that evening of the fact that NASA scientists back home on Earth and even the astronauts themselves were by no means certain as to Tranquility Base's precise location. The LM it would appear had not been rigorously tracked to its place of rest upon the lunar surface.
Coincident with those epic events then occurring on the surface of the moon, enthusiastic journalists had gathered at world renown Lick Observatory. There, astronomer-scientist-laser specialists extraordinaire were prepared to fire a "ruby red" laser beam at a small reflective surface that Armstrong and Aldrin were to place at the Eagle's point of rest. When the laser found its target and the light bounced back to us here on earth, that light return would be recorded with a sophisticated sensing device and all would cheer at this magnificent demonstration of a human presence on the moon's countenance.
It must have been a grand disappointment for those journalists when the laser did indeed fire that evening, but alas, could not find its target. It had been hoped that light bouncing back to the Lick Observatory scientists after having made the 2.5 second round trip from the Earth to moon and back would serve to not only measure the distance between mother Earth and her closest luminary, but would also serve to precisely, that is within the diameter of the laser beam's lunar spot , determine Eagle's location.
The astonishing fact that no clear and decicsive effort seems to have been made on the part of the principals involved to ask the astronauts to try and determine their own location with their navigational equipment, sextant/scanning telescope/navigational computer reveals an unexplainable indifference on the part of the Apollo 11 program's flight directors with regard to the obvious importance of making a clear and precise determination of Eagle's location, a location once so obtained, could be relayed to the staff at Lick Observatory so the laser might target the reflector and help to "find" the astronauts.
Determining a point of departure by way of the Eagle's navigational equipment would be necessary for the spaceship to return to Columbia, the command module, once Armstrong's and Aldrin's work had been accomplished upon the moon's surface. So the very means the astronauts were to use in orienting themselves in terms of finding their way off the lunar surface and up to Collins in the Columbia was the same means they should have employed to find themselves upon landing so that their point of rest could be targeted by the laser. This was more than reasonable and it was not done.
Given that the means of identifying their location was available to the astronauts by way of their navigational equipment, indeed it was the only equipment available to put the astronauts back on track to Earth, given the availability of the Lick team, a team that actually began firing the laser shortly after the reflector was set down, but to no avail, given the importance of locating themselves upon the moon's surface in preparation for a navigated return to Columbia, given the absence of any account in the Apollo 11 transcripts or debriefing reports that such an important and obvious issue was clearly addressed and therefore presumably ignored, given the report of Apollo scientist Donald A. Beattie that it was not until August 1st that the Lick crew with the assistance of Beattie's team was able to find the reflector allegedly associated with Eagle(see Beattie's book, "Taking Science to the Moon", ebook reference location 2916) we can quite rightly, but very sadly conclude that the Apollo 11 landing was not authentic as there was no effort made on the part of the principals to find Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin, find exactly where it was they were upon the surface of the moon. The alleged means was available, and their finding was of course a matter of the greatest importance. The Apollo 11 mission must have been fraudulent. The Apollo 11 landing simply cannot have occurred, as it is unreasonable for anyone to believe that 2 astronauts would land on the moon and have both the astronauts themselves, and those managing them back on earth claim no one, no one at all, knew really where they were.
Re: Lost Bird Proves Apollo Inauthenticity « Reply #5 on Jul 7, 2011, 2:46pm »
So, please explain why they chose not to find the site right away, which would have cleverly left you with one less piece of evidence that it was a hoax? I mean, since you say they were faking the whole thing, why not fake finding it?
Myself, I think you're overestimating how easy it would be for a tiny, focussed laser beam to hit an exact spot on the first try. Seeing as the spot was, oh, a quarter million miles away.
Joined: Jul 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,120 Location: Olde Yurope
Re: Lost Bird Proves Apollo Inauthenticity « Reply #7 on Jul 7, 2011, 2:53pm »
I think its fantasmaorgamsmatronorical.
BTW Fattydash, I am diabetic. Please for the love of God do NOT ever, never in a million years come near me with your medical opinion. Given your track record here, I'd being one nervous mofo should you ever come near me with a scaple. If you know what it is of course. Or know whether to use it in the case of a HBA1C test that is.
So basically, everything which went wrong is proof that it was faked, because they didn't want to make it look as though everything had gone right.
And here I see why you raise the point that the hoax fails on logic. In the CTers mind, success or failure are all evidence of the hoax. It has no bounds, and becomes logically ridiculous by scale alone.
Re: Lost Bird Proves Apollo Inauthenticity « Reply #9 on Jul 7, 2011, 3:12pm »
The point is they were prepared to try. Soon as the laser was set down, they shot. The problem was Eagle deviated from her intended course. What they needed to do was to tell Lick how to find them. Sight and so forth with the navigational equipment , exactly as they would do before leaving the surface of the moon. but instead of taking off, translate that locator data to coordinates that Lick would understand. Lick fires and finds the laser, TranquilityBase and the astronauts.
There should be no mistake that up there on Tranquility Base, the Eagle and her boys are lost. The guys in Houston had Collins look for the lost bird. He couldn't find it. Collins never spotted the Eagle from his orbital perch(see the Apollo 11 transcript and debriefing for confirmation of Collins' not finding the Eagle). Locating the Eagle was important. Why didn't they try and find her with the LRRR? By that I mean, first have the astronauts locate themselves and then have the laser turned on themselves. That is what was intended to begin with after all, and again, a precise as possible self location of Eagle was paramount regardless with regard to her setting up to launch and hook up with Michael Collins in Columbia.
Determining a point of departure by way of this navigational equipment would be necessary for the Eagle to return to Columbia, the command module, once Armstrong's and Aldrin's work had been accomplished upon the moon's surface.
A) The navigational system couldn't do what you claim it could. Star sightings were used to determine attitude, not position. Position was determined by dead reckoning using an array of accelerometers. The on-board system was periodically updated using positional data obtained by Earth tracking stations. Once on the Moon, the LM had no ability to pinpoint its position any closer than what was already known via dead reckoning and Earth tracking.
B) Why do you believe knowing a accurate position was critical to return to Columbia?
Re: Lost Bird Proves Apollo Inauthenticity « Reply #12 on Jul 7, 2011, 3:24pm »
In both the LM and the CM the navigational system assessed and made a determination of the ships' position in space. See the MIT navigational manual and recall they used the Apollo 13 LM navigator to navigate through cislunar space. The LM navigational equipment was utilized before the Eagle's top left Tranquility base for Columbia. In so doing, the LM identified its position so that a hook up with Collins would be possible. See the Apollo 11 transcript as pertains the astronauts' preparations to leave the lunar surface.
Re: Lost Bird Proves Apollo Inauthenticity « Reply #13 on Jul 7, 2011, 3:30pm »
Also, as soon as Eagle landed, they sighted stars in preparation for an emergency take off. See the Apollo 11 transcripts. So at that time, right then, they could have relayed Lick that position and could have been found, were they there that is . That fact, that the transcripts show nothing to this effect, and given the importance of the LRRR experiment, one may conclude none of this is real. Were it, the Eagle's position at Tranquility base would have been relayed not only to Lick, but to Collins and any other interested parties including those in Houston. Why did it take until August the 1st, 11 days after the Eagle had landed to find the reflector and Tranquility Base?
In both the LM and the CM the navigational system assessed and made a determination of the ships' position in space.
Via dead reckoning, not by star sightings. The dead reckoning position was already in the system when the LM landed. How do you propose they pinpoint their position any closer once on the surface?