david
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Post by david on Jan 3, 2007 10:37:47 GMT -4
I have no idea if any of this is true or not. I just found these articles on the internet. Does anyone know anything about this? www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/jonestown/connections_5.html?sect=8(excerpts) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leo Ryan’s murder is seen by many as being much more sinister than the hysterical behaviour of a madman. Leo Ryan had been a strong critic of the CIA and was the author of the Hughes-Ryan Amendment, which, if passed, would have required that the CIA report to Congress on all of its covert operations before they commenced. Soon after Ryan’s death, the Hughes-Ryan Amendment was quashed in Congress. The question conspiracy theorists ask is whether Ryan was killed in order to reach this objective and the massacre at “Jonestown” merely a smoke screen to distract attention away from Ryan’s murder? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The final area of concern in the “Jonestown” massacre regards the official US decision not to conduct autopsies on the victims of the massacre; the reason given was that the cause of death was readily apparent. The results of pathology examinations conducted by Guyanese coroner Leslie Mootoo however, revealed his belief that as many as 700 of the victims were murders, not suicides. Mootoo claims that in a 32-hour period he, and his assistants, examined the bodies of 137 victims. They had all been injected with cyanide in areas of their bodies, which could not have been reached by their own hand, such as between the shoulder blades; many other victims had been shot. Charles Huff, one of the seven Green Berets who were the first American troops on the scene following the massacre, claimed that “We saw many bullet wounds as well as wounds from crossbow bolts.” Those who were shot appeared to have been running toward the jungle, away from the compound, at the time they were shot. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.mk-resistance.com/jonestown.htmlwww.subversiveelement.com/Firefromsky20.htmljonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Articles/hougan-lobster.htm |
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 3, 2007 12:12:20 GMT -4
Do you realize how ridiculously handicapped the CIA would be if it had to report to Congress on all covert operations before they were begun?
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david
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Post by david on Jan 4, 2007 8:58:11 GMT -4
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lenbrazil
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Post by lenbrazil on Jan 4, 2007 9:43:28 GMT -4
I have not looked into the Jonestown massacre very much but even according to the “official” version many Temple members who were unwilling to commit suicide were murdered by the cults leadership. This was the version recounted by survivors who were able to escape. Nor I think is it disputed that members of the cult attacked Ryan’s entourage and defecting cult members on the airstrip. www.rickross.com/reference/jonestown/jonestown2.htmlThe authors of the articles you posted don’t document all their claims and often make logical leaps to reach their conclusions Len |
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 4, 2007 13:05:38 GMT -4
I'm not even going to bother reading all these links if they are simply trying to prove "the CIA is evil." The CIA is an organization of human beings, much like you and me, who care for the wellfare of their country. Labling such a group "evil" is too simplistic.
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Post by stutefish on Jan 4, 2007 15:33:13 GMT -4
David, do you have a claim to make? A theory? A conclusion, based on evidence, that explains all the evidence available? A story that makes more sense than the currently-accepted story of what happened? Anything at all?
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david
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Post by david on Jan 5, 2007 14:12:02 GMT -4
I know that's a lot of stuff to read. How about just reading these two. www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.htmlwww.theunjustmedia.com/major_general_smedley_butler.htmThe second one is by an american general. All I have is those articles about Jonestown. I was hoping somebody else would know something about it. I don't claim to know that what the articles say reflects reality. If it turned out to be true, I wouldn't be surprised though as it fits the pattern. That's why I think it's worth investigating. |
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Post by stutefish on Jan 5, 2007 14:57:34 GMT -4
A lot of people seem to think it's worth investigating. As far as I can tell from the materials you've linked to, all they've got so far is some interesting coincidences and a lot of supposition and guesswork.
I think it will require significant new evidence--declassified/leaked CIA documents, first-hand testimony of people involved, etc.--to seriously question the current mainstream narrative about Jim Jones and Jonestown.
While we're waiting for you to uncover that evidence, here's an amusing list of things I would do, if I were the CIA, and some legislator sponsored a bill requiring me to disclose all my covert operations in advance to Congress (in order, from first to last):
1. Laugh heartily at the naivite, ignorance, and hubris of politicians.
2. Briefly consider having one or two of my pet Senators kill the bill in debate, and cut the foolish legislator out of the Washington political game entirely as punishment for daring to mess with me.
3. Decide it's really not worth the trouble of wasting a favor, since the bill is really so stupid that no effort on my part is necessary; the legislature will handily defeat the bill without my interference.
4. Show the news item of the congressman's horrible death to my co-workers, with one eyebrow raised as if to say "ironic, isn't it".
5. Give a fake laugh when my co-worker jokes, "we should have thought of that!"
6. Say, "yeah, but who wants a nutjob cult leader on our payroll?"
7. Go home, get a good night's sleep.
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Post by turbonium on Jan 6, 2007 7:23:37 GMT -4
My father-in-law lived in Guyana at the time, working in the diamond business, until the nice folks from de Beers arrived and sealed that deal.
He saw the Jonestown horror first-hand, and has genuine inside knowledge about what happened. The problem is that he still has difficulty talking about Jonestown and the diamond mines within the Guyanese jungles. I can understand why, from what he has told me. Seeing murders, mutilations, and getting death threats can have that sort of effect on a person.
Some specific things I do know, and most of those I won't make known. But I will state one thing that's well understood, especially within Guyana - if the CIA and de Beers come to your town, you'd best make tracks out.
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david
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Post by david on Jan 13, 2007 10:58:22 GMT -4
The official American version of things almost never reflects what really happened or what's happening; I would give that the least consideration. I'm a bit unclear to what you consider the CIA to be. I think this article epitomizes what the CIA is and does. www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.htmlConsidering what the CIA has done and is capable of doing I don't think this theory is unrealistic. www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/jonestown/connections_5.html(excerpt) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Leo Ryan’s murder is seen by many as being much more sinister than the hysterical behaviour of a madman. Leo Ryan had been a strong critic of the CIA and was the author of the Hughes-Ryan Amendment, which, if passed, would have required that the CIA report to Congress on all of its covert operations before they commenced. Soon after Ryan’s death, the Hughes-Ryan Amendment was quashed in Congress. The question conspiracy theorists ask is whether Ryan was killed in order to reach this objective and the massacre at “Jonestown” merely a smoke screen to distract attention away from Ryan’s murder? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Hughes-Ryan Amendment would have been a big thorn in the side of the CIA. The above theory seems perfectly plausible to me. If a person in power can't be bribed or blackmailed, he has to be killed. Let's not forget about Senator Wellstone. www.alternet.org/story/14399/Have you seen this video? www.erichufschmid.net/MasqueradeParty_Part_1.wmv www.erichufschmid.net/MasqueradeParty_Part_2.wmv www.erichufschmid.net/MasqueradeParty_Part_3.wmv It has some theories about how politicians are controlled. This article talks about who does the controlling. www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ruling_Elites/BilderbergClub.html |
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Post by gillianren on Jan 13, 2007 19:38:53 GMT -4
You never do have anything but random crap from around the web, do you?
There are plenty of people willing to talk about Jim Jones and Jonestown. Heck, there's going to be a show about it Monday at 8 on the History Channel.
As to what the CIA is capable of, I'd like to share a joke with you.
How do you know the CIA didn't kill Kennedy?
Well, he's dead, isn't he?
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david
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Post by david on Jan 14, 2007 7:35:12 GMT -4
Why do you call it random crap? Do you think what the articles and videos say doesn't reflect reality? I'd learned about this stuff long before I ever read anything about it just by living in Mexico and talking to Latin Americans. Tell me what you think of these two videos. www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8171.htmvideo.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035&q=oilThat's the American mainstream media. That's the worst place to get information on which to base your opinions. All I can say is that if you believe the American mainstream version of things, you should start reading articles from this website. www.thirdworldtraveler.com/I haven't talked to people from every country dealt with in that site but I've talked to people from several African and Arabian countries and the Philippines and Latin America. I've never seen anything in that site that wasn't consistent with what they told me. |
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Post by gillianren on Jan 14, 2007 9:19:02 GMT -4
I call it "random crap" because you have consistently shown an inability to understand basic concepts such as "your sources could be wrong, too." In fact, the worst place to get information on which to base your opinions is random You Tube videos. I've told you before that I won't watch them. I've told you before why. I can again, if it hasn't sunk in, but I consider it extremely rude of you that you're willing to watch hours of video but not spend ten minutes summarizing, instead expecting everyone else to watch the hours of video in order to understand what in God's name you're talking about.
And in point of fact, quite a lot of the people willing to talk about Jim Jones and Jonestown are people who had personal dealing with him. There are still quite a few of them left, and strangely, most of them have this crazy thing about him being a megalamoniacal cult leader.
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david
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Post by david on Jan 14, 2007 10:47:49 GMT -4
I explained why I think those sources are right. Here's what I said. www.thirdworldtraveler.com/It doesn't matter where they're from. What matters is whether what they say squares with what people from those countries say. There's so much info in those videos that it would take hours to summarize it. I don't have the time. There's no point in it anyway. What does it matter if you get the same info from my summary or the video itself? I never said he wasn't a megalamoniacal cult leader. I simply said that what those articles say fits the pattern and shouldn't be ruled out. I would think the official version of anything like this would be the scenario least likely to reflect reality given the US givernments record of lying. video.google.es/videoplay?docid=-4757274759497686216 |
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 14, 2007 18:17:03 GMT -4
David, I see you are pointing to Eric Hufschmid's work here too, so I'll ask you again here, do you consider him to be a reliable source? And if so why?
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