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 Author | Topic: All the Apollo Data are Bogus (Read 1,850 times) |
rocky
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LunarOrbit
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|  | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #1 on Jun 3, 2007, 8:20am » | |
So to refresh everyone's memory here is the point you are trying to make:
"The government has lied about things in the past, so that means Apollo was also a lie."
Did I get that right?
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rocky
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #2 on Jun 3, 2007, 8:28am » | |
Quote:| But really, when it comes down to it, you, like most of the Hoax Believers, discard the majority of the footprint that the Apollo program made in sciences and engineering, and the massive amounts of data and documentation it generated during its lifetime, to concentrate all your attention on a small part of a pictorial record taken by amateurs on the lunar surface. |
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We read that footprint is there, but is it really there? If some hard evidence is found that some of the footage was faked, it can be safely assumed that all that data are bogus. Look at the examples of bogus data inother areas I gave. If it happened once, it can happen again.
There seems to have been a whole department of people working on propaganda to make us think that we were a beacon of democracy and freedom in the world when the whole time we were overthrowing democratically-elected governments so we could exploit their countries, and training torturers, etc.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/
My argument isn't, "They lied about our role in the world and depleted uranium and genetically-modified foods, etc so they must be lying about Apollo.".
My argument is "They lied about our role in the world and depleted uranium and genetically-modified foods, etc so we have to be suspicious about all of the Apollo data and everything else the government tells us about Apollo.
People have put forth the Apollo data as proof that Apollo really happened. All I'm saying is that it's not proof. The proof is in the footage.
There's the footage played at double speed at the 21 minute mark of this video.
http://video.google.es/videoplay?docid=4135126565081757736&q=apollo
There's the difference in body movements in these two clips.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQTNLaUE&mode=related&search=
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11v.1101330.rm
This is the proof.
There's also the really strong circumstantial evidence of the Astronauts' behavior after the missions.
http://video.google.es/videoplay?docid=7284336491671901968
This one has seven parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILnDZ5yl7D0&mode=related&search=
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rocky
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #3 on Jun 3, 2007, 8:39am » | |
Quote:I'll tell you what gentlemen, I wouldn't want to live Rocky's sad world view for all the money in the world.
Can you imagine looking at the world like that? Scary. |
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People like you should go live abroad for a few years and find out what's really happening.
It's all explained here.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/
If you were fooled about this, maybe you were fooled about Apollo. You are obviously capable of being fooled if you really believe what you said there.
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scooter
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #4 on Jun 3, 2007, 8:43am » | |
I have lied in the past.
2+2=4
I have been to North Carolina
ergo, in Rockyworld, 2+2 may not equal 4, and the fact that I used to go to the Outer Banks every summer may not be true.
It would seem your assessment is correct, LO. Same old song and dance.
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rocky
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #5 on Jun 3, 2007, 8:48am » | |
Quote:You claimed that the visor reflections were evidence that Apollo was faked. This was not based on any personal expertise in optics or photography, but something you saw on a conspiracist website.
Some of us here have enough expertise in optics to present explanations of why you were wrong, but we didn't just ask you to take our word for it. We suggested experiments you could carry out to discover whether the world worked the way we said it did or the way that you said it did.
Why are you so afraid to carry out these simple experiments?
And why should we believe anything you say about any other matter when you are so wilfully incorrect on this one? |
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You're referring to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSHFekcXhNQ&mode=related&search=
I've seen enough reflections on convex surfaces to know what the reflection of the sun looks like on a convex surface. I don't buy your explanations. All I can do is wait until I find an objective third party and ask him or her what he or she thinks. I'm not going to take anything you people say as fact as I highly suspect that you don't even believe your own arguments.
http://www.opposingdigits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1222
Here's the thread he's referring to.
http://apollohoax.proboards21.com/index.....read=1169203802
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scooter
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #6 on Jun 3, 2007, 8:55am » | |
Sorry...YouTube has had faked and altered videos posted in the past. Therefore, none of their videos can be considered valid, "objective" evidence...
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rocky
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #7 on Jun 3, 2007, 9:04am » | |
Reply #21 on Mar 3, 2007, 7:46pm by hplasm
Quote:| Put up or stop posting this off-topic bogusness. |
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This is a very simplistic way of looking at the other topics I posted. I'm saying that the US government lies all the time about a lot of things. The whole view of the world that most Americans have is an upside-down view of reality because the government is so good at lying and does it about so many things. It's not directly connected to the Apollo issue but we should keep the big picture in mind when viewing the Apollo issue.
Answer me this hplasm. Do you think the US government is a beacon of democracy and freedom in the world?
Do you think the statement below is true, or false?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_01_03_03_mockingbird.html
(excerpt)
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The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that 6 million people had died by 1987 as a result of CIA covert operations, called an "American Holocaust" by former State Department official William Blum.
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Please answer hplasm. I want to see if you're brainwashed or not.
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BertL
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #8 on Jun 3, 2007, 9:10am » | |
Just a short question (short answer please). What evidence does rocky have that all the Apollo Data is bogus? I can't be too bothered clicking links at the moment.
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LunarOrbit
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #9 on Jun 3, 2007, 9:14am » | |
Answer the question Rocky, have you ever told a lie?
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rocky
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rocky
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #11 on Jun 3, 2007, 9:45am » | |
« Reply #37 on Mar 4, 2007, 9:19pm » by PeterB
Quote:Out of interest, can you clarify, according to your beliefs, why did the USA choose to go to the Moon? Was it for propaganda reasons? Was it to make the USSR look second-rate in comparison?
If so, can you please explain why the USSR accepted the reality of Apollo?
Were the Americans able to fool the Soviets? Or did the Soviets know about it and go along with the fake? |
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There are a lot of alternative scenarios for this--most of them are plausible I think.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm
(excerpt)
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Motives
Several motives have been suggested for the U.S. government to fake the moon landings - some of the recurrent elements are:
Distraction - The U.S. government benefited from a popular distraction to take attention away from the Vietnam war. Lunar activities did abruptly stop, with planned missions cancelled, around the same time that the US ceased its involvement in the Vietnam War.
Cold War Prestige - The U.S. government considered it vital that the U.S. win the space race with the USSR. Going to the Moon, if it was possible, would have been risky and expensive. It would have been much easier to fake the landing, thereby ensuring success.
Money - NASA raised approximately 30 billion dollars pretending to go to the moon. This could have been used to pay off a large number of people, providing significant motivation for complicity. In variations of this theory, the space industry is characterized as a political economy, much like the military industrial complex, creating fertile ground for its own survival.
Risk - The available technology at the time was such that there was a good chance that the landing might fail if genuinely attempted.
The Soviets, with their own competing moon program and an intense economic and political and military rivalry with the USA, could be expected to have cried foul if the USA tried to fake a Moon landing. Theorist Ralph Rene responds that shortly after the alleged Moon landings, the USA silently started shipping hundreds of thousands of tons of grain as humanitarian aid to the allegedly starving USSR. He views this as evidence of a cover-up, the grain being the price of silence. (The Soviet Union in fact had its own Moon program).
Proponents of the Apollo hoax suggest that the Soviet Union, and latterly Russia, and the United States were allied in the exploration of space, during the Cold war and after. The United States and the former Soviet Union today routinely engage in cooperative space ventures, as do many other nations that are popularly believed to be enemies. However, this suggestion is challenged by the impression of intense international competition that was under way during the Cold War and is not supported by the accounts of participants on either side of the Iron Curtain. Many argue that the fact that the Soviet Union and other Communist bloc countries, eager to discredit the United States, have not produced any contrary evidence to be the single most significant argument against such a hoax. Soviet involvement might also implausibly multiply the scale of the conspiracy, to include hundreds of thousands of conspirators of uncertain loyalty. http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Apollo_moon_landing_hoax_accusations
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Also, we can't just assume that the official version of the relation between the US and the USSR reflected reality back then. Have you read Chomsky's analysis of the cold war?
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-3-1.html
http://www.zmag.org/Chomsky/dd/dd-c01-s01.html
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&q=chom....on+Google&meta=
I just talked to someone from Russia yesterday here in Madrid. She went to school during the Soviet era. She said they learned in school that the Americans went to the moon. She had never heard of the hoax theory.
This in not proof that Apollo was realn though. Who knows what kind of deals might have been made or who bribed or blackmailed whom.
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JayUtah
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #12 on Jun 3, 2007, 9:50am » | |
How sad when you can't discuss one conspiracy theory without bringing up all the others from which to borrow material. How trollish.
You were shown examples of reflections from convex surfaces that didn't fit your model, so your continued avoidance of that evidence has to be either willful evasion or pretty strong delusion. And your attempts to dismiss anything we say as biased has been shown many times to be mere selective acceptance and double standard. You can't discuss the evidence without dragging in your politics and hatred of authority.
Remind us again why you're different from any other troll?
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rocky
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #13 on Jun 3, 2007, 9:50am » | |
It sure is refreshing not to have my hands tied. I can say anything I want in the "Other Conspiracy Theory" section. If I ever start another moon thread, I'm going to put it here.
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JayUtah
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| | Re: All the Apollo Data are Bogus
« Reply #14 on Jun 3, 2007, 9:54am » | |
You mean it's refreshing not having your hands tied to actual evidence, and being free to dredge up all manner of irrelevancy?
As I said, someone who can't stick to the subject doesn't deserve much attention.
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