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Post by ka9q on May 1, 2008 6:49:01 GMT -4
I wonder if it actually might be possible to do something constructive with at least some of these hoax theories. To turn lemons into lemonade. For a while I've been intrigued by the idea of giving perpetual motion machine designs to physics students and challenging them to find the flaws. Some are obvious, others can be devilishly subtle, but all can challenge them to apply their understanding of physics and math in an entertaining way. I think we can do the same with many Apollo hoax theories. Obviously some of them are just plain incomprehensible. But I've noticed that most are the result of serious scientific illiteracy, and debunking them can provide an opportunity to teach some real science and math. Many of the debunkings already do something like this, but they're pretty narrowly tailored to each specific hoax claim. And of course you can point out that "common sense" and your intuition about physics and math are often wrong, especially in a place as totally alien as the moon. You could almost write a physics textbook around a selected collection of these things, with chapters on optics, geometry, kinematics, and so on. Sound like fun anyone?
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Post by ka9q on May 1, 2008 6:54:42 GMT -4
PS. One way to do this is to use elements of an Apollo mission to teach various aspects of physics and math, touching on many of the same issues that the hoax believers do as examples of physics in action. For example, someone on the ALSJ worked out a very nice lesson to determine gravity from the period of a pendulum. The pendulum in question is seen on video of a deployment lanyard swinging on the side of the Apollo 14 LM. I thought that was pretty clever and interesting. The video also illustrates how there can be much less friction when there's no atmosphere.
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Post by JayUtah on May 1, 2008 10:20:15 GMT -4
Misconception in any form is often a very effective springboard to education. In fact, sometimes you create that advantage by introducing your own Simplicio.
But I've discovered that practical limits apply. In order to refute the hoax theory for education purposes, you first have to present it. That doesn't often sit well with parents, school boards, or administrators. I was asked to intervene in one unfortunate case where the presentation was supervised by a substitute teacher who didn't quite understand the game plan; the students came away thinking the hoax theory was what they were supposed to learn.
The problem is that a concise presentation of any of the hoax theories in a classroom is best done by showing one of the available hoax videos: Collier, Sibrel, Fox (Nash), or Kaysing. And we've seen just what a powerful influence that is. Following up with classrom discussion is fine, but sometimes not as memorable as intended. Students remember television; they don't remember teacher lectures.
My brother-in-law teaches high school science. He and I have often spoken about a science lesson plan built around the hoax theory. Unfortunately we can't get around those uncomfortable side-effects to the point where he would want to teach it. There's just too much that can go wrong.
There is a professor who uses Bart Sibrel's video to teach a course in critical thinking. That game plan is predictable: show the video and debunk it, polling the students' beliefs at various points in the process. Unfortunately Sibrel trumpets this professor's comments as if it were an academic endorsement of his findings. In fact the professor's admiration for Sibrel's work is not in the strength of its conclusions, but rather in the density of hogwash it provides.
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Post by wdmundt on May 1, 2008 11:01:34 GMT -4
I couldn't agree more, Jay. I've been trying to figure some way around these problems for a while. I am beginning to wonder if doing a study of HBs is the way to go. Who are these people? What makes them so committed? How much education do they have, on average? Why are they so confident in presenting their half-assed ideas to the world?
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Post by waynewitt on May 1, 2008 11:34:19 GMT -4
What if instead of using the hoax as the teaching material, you taught the material first, and then later on presented the hoax theory and asked the students to figure out if it was right or wrong. Instead of teaching the hoax first, then the math to figure it out, do it the other way around. Teach them, the math and let them debunk the hoaxes on their own. Or you don't even have to use the hoax. You could use what actually happened. After a lesson, have them calculate how long it would take for a feather and a hammer to drop to the surface on the moon. Once they have their calculations done, show them the video of Dave Scott.
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Post by chrissyo on May 1, 2008 11:50:11 GMT -4
Being a current undergraduate physics/astrophysics major, I'd have to say that joining in on the whole 'Apollo Hoax' debate has been an overall positive experience. It's got me learning research skills, practising the recognition of various fallacies, practising techniques of critique, gaining knowledge in a variety of topics and providing myself with general motivation for my studies (and so on). I think the education of students using hoax theories would be useful - and fun for the students to boot! (Well, I think anything could beat the approach of "Here are several arbitrary questions. Do them.") In fact, this topic is the basic premise behind Phil Plait's "Bad Astronomy" - that bad science can be used as a foothold for the education of good science (like Jay said). I'm all for it. As a quick aside, I came across this book earlier this evening: Lunar Landing and Return: A Simplified Physics & Mathematics Investigation-The Apollo II Saga.It seems like it could be a useful resource that students (or otherwise) could use in such endeavors.
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Post by BertL on May 1, 2008 12:04:09 GMT -4
Not a very good idea. You might end up with something like this happening.
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Post by ka9q on May 1, 2008 14:08:18 GMT -4
Wow, what an interesting discussion. Obviously I'm not the first person to think of this.
I hadn't heard of "Whitest Kids" before. That sketch was just strange; all I saw was a guy feeding a lot of crap to kids without a punchline.
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Post by ka9q on May 1, 2008 15:03:19 GMT -4
What if instead of using the hoax as the teaching material, you taught the material first, and then later on presented the hoax theory and asked the students to figure out if it was right or wrong. That's what I had in mind when I thought of using perpetual motion machines in a physics class. You could do it in the last days of the class to increase the "fun factor" when the students are otherwise preoccupied. And they get to apply all the stuff they've learned. I'm a communications engineer, so I specialize in debunking crackpot communication schemes. There is no field too arcane to have its share of nutters and scammers. Usually the inventor makes bandwidth or power claims far beyond the state of the art and would violate fundamental mathematical limits. A big favorite is sending broadcast quality video down ordinary 3kHz voice phone lines. A few have built companies around them and take real money from real investors. This really makes me angry. The investors, who don't know any better, are being exploited by a scam, or more often people who are just plain clueless. I've encountered a few professors who have had their students pick these bogus schemes apart in a homework assignment or exam. You grade the results so you can ensure they get the point.
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Post by JayUtah on May 1, 2008 16:01:23 GMT -4
There are lots of great ideas here.
Yes, I understood the original point to be using the fascination of the conspiracy theory to pique interest in the actual science. Give students interesting problems to solve and they'll stretch themselves to solve them. However, presenting students with the Moon landing hoax theory hasn't historically interested them in the right way. We presume the students will recognize something amiss, or be sufficiently indignant, that they'll search out the true science in order to restore their faith. In fact they don't generally care; they're just as happy believing Apollo was faked based on what the video says. Unless we can get over that hurdle, it doesn't really work.
Leaving out the conspiracy theory, Apollo does provide a great test bed for both basic and advanced engineering and physics. The pendulous lanyard is an excellent example. And actually lighting students and practitioners can do well to look carefully at the Apollo photographs to figure out how the lighting works.
And of course the conspiracy theorists themselves are worth studying, but that's a different sort of analysis.
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Post by Ginnie on May 1, 2008 16:42:07 GMT -4
T=(Wf)(450s) = 300,000px450s = 587seconds F 230,000p
Vg=(F)(g)(T) = 230,000px32f/s-sx587s = 14,000f/s Wf 300,000p
R=Wt = 472,946p = 2.73Õ In(2.73) = 1.01 Wb 172,946
V=(Vg)(1.01) – (Gx’)(T)
V=(14,400 f/s)(1.01-(7.38f/s)(587s)=14,544f/s – 4332 f/s = 10,212 f/s
Vesc = Vorb + V = 25,621 f/s + 10,212 f/s = 35,833 ft/secIf I was back in school and was presented with the above, I would not be interested and probably move on to something else, but that's just me. Now, put a good biography of an astronaut in my hands and I would eat it up. It's amazing how much can be clarified with a book like that. When you view technology in a social context, you tend to understand better why something was created, what it was used, why it was improved or flawed, sometimes how it worked and how it was fixed or why it broke. Remember Aldrin bringing along wrist tethers, foot restraints and portable handholds to assist in the Gemini 12 spacewalk? They worked brilliantly and shows the ability of the astronauts in putting their experience and ingenuity to work, but it is not information that would be in any technical manual, schematic or parts manual. If one of the astronauts says that their quarters were cramped in a capsule I find myself looking for an illustration of the capsule to get a visualization of how cramped it was. But that can't tell me how it felt. Same thing with how cold it got on Apollo 13 when all non-vital systems were shut down. Sure, a journal can tell me it went down to 40 degrees, but I appreciate and understand it better when I'm informed how their coveralls turned slimy, and how they longed for thermal underwear, or how they didn't have room to wear their spacesuits or why they couldn't sleep or had bouts of loneliness. If you can connect to the human condition, it bridges the gap between technobabble and human experiences. Plus, a wider variety of people enjoy reading good stories, which is also what the Apollo missions were - Adventure! The Unknown! Disaster! Like I've posted previously, comic books (using the graphic novel format) need to be produced from these "tales of adventure and daring". Now that would be something worthwhile to pursue. i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb184/ginniegatrit/apollo11-1.jpgi204.photobucket.com/albums/bb184/ginniegatrit/apollo11_2.jpg
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Post by Grand Lunar on May 2, 2008 14:01:46 GMT -4
The teaching would have to go about in a careful manner, as mentioned elsewhere.
Perhaps if presented as a "find the error in these claims" style, then it might work.
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Post by ka9q on May 13, 2008 2:35:49 GMT -4
If you can connect to the human condition, it bridges the gap between technobabble and human experiences. Yes. Before the movie version of "Apollo 13" I never would have believed that a mainstream Hollywood movie could create a dramatic and suspenseful scene about doing some arithmetic correctly. I love that movie. Not only is it about Apollo, but few mainstream movies have ever shown engineers as heroes. Usually we're just geeky stereotypes serving as comic foils for the "real" heroes. Yeah, there are plenty of technical goofs, but they are far less egregious than in almost any other movie. There was no ridiculously absurd premise, no wholesale rewriting of the laws of physics, no god-and-machine ending. We finally got some protagonists who solve their problems with knowledge and clever thinking, not automatic weapons, physical strength and gymnastic prowess. A movie like this can give students a taste of what engineers do, and what you can accomplish when you apply a lot of creative thinking and work to a good understanding of how the physical universe operates. I think it *is* still possible to interest students in math and science, but only if you teach it correctly.
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