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Post by gillianren on Jul 11, 2007 16:18:42 GMT -4
Yes, he could claim that, but it would contradict the historical facts. And we all know how much they hate doing that!
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jul 11, 2007 17:11:34 GMT -4
I agree many HBs think this way. To them there are only two possibilities -- succeed or cheat. Other possibilities are apparently inconceivable to the typical HB. It makes me wonder what kind of sicko scumbags we're dealing with that they can't conceive of someone acting honorably; that the only response to failure is cheating. That almost makes me feel sorry for them, any major breakthrough or achievement must have been hoaxed, all accounts of humans success in overcoming problems and enviroment, meh Faked hoaxed or aliens, Pyramids - Aliens, Stonehenge - Flying saucer inspection pit. Great wall of china - Atlanean breakwater. Do people really trek to the northpole, thats an easy one to fake, or sail solo around the world, or flew across the Atlantic fly around the world, go to the Antarctic, Cross deserts mountains etc. is there nothing of human achievements they can attribute to just us. The first time I Climbed up to and walked the Crib Goch and along to the top of Snowden I was 7 and scared out of my teeny tiny, there was no reason for me to go, I could get photos and postcards from the shop at Pen-y-pas but I did it, Strangely the photo record of me out on the arette has been lost, does that mean I didn't do it then, it was not a first or even the 1000000th time it had been walked but it was a first in my mind, First major heart stoppingly truly fearful exhilarating fantastic enjoyable sphincter-factor 9 inducing experience. Why then, if a 7 year old who was previously petrified of heights can organise a trip to Beddgelert with a friend, camp out and then do the horseshoe overcoming all obstacles in our path, could thousands of Minds and Engineers not place some Brave Trusting Men Around and on the moon?.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 11, 2007 17:32:16 GMT -4
Well said, furi. I'm not a religious man, but if I were I'd get down on my knees and thank God I don't live in woo-woo land. I've often thought about how miserable it would be to live a life were the potential of humanity is not recognized or appreciated.
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Post by nomuse on Jul 11, 2007 18:41:12 GMT -4
Yes...accomplishments past and present. Why doesn't the ancient astronaut crowd see just how insulting the "pyramids were built by aliens" stuff is?
The HB world, and the conspiracy believer's world, is a drab place indeed. No only are there no spectacular accomplishments, not only are there no heros, but there isn't the simple joy of discovery or accomplishment. No-one in their world is proud of their work. No-one in their world is excited by new discoveries. It is all a grey miasma, tramping in lock-step from low-paying job to a seat on the couch to digest the pap of propaganda from the ruling classes. New ideas are shunned in the fear of change, the fear of losing social position, the fear of being individual. And no-one, ever, takes a chance.
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Post by JayUtah on Jul 11, 2007 19:07:50 GMT -4
Reaching for the fantastic is only accidentally insulting. It's just fun for people to believe aliens built the pyramids because it realizes a sort of fantasy world. It isn't meant to demean the human architects and builders. That kind of belief is not conspiracism per se.
But when conspiracists poop all over Apollo, it's for a different reason. Conspiracism is largely a reaction to a perception of mediocrity. I emphasize perception because I believe most conspiracists could be objectively considered much better people than they think they are. But if one perceives himself to be inferior, then the desire to be great creates two directives: (1) "If I can't be great, then no one can." (2) "I'm greater than you because I know something you don't."
The first directive manifests itself in the notion that a conspiracist or any other layman is just as capable as anyone else of understanding whatever needs to be understood in order to solve a problem. The other way of saying that is, "I can do that; I just don't want to." Any person can design a skyscraper just as good as anyone else. Anyone ought to be able build a spaceship to go to the Moon, and if the conspiracist can't figure out how to do it, then by gum no one else can either. So if someone says he can, then he's lying.
The second directive manifests itself in the pretended (and usually wrong) knowledge displayed in the conspiracy theory. "I know the radiation was way too strong, and you don't; so your beliefs are silly." Or in Rocky's case, he's supposedly better than we because he's an honest truth-seeker and we're just government shills.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 12, 2007 4:46:24 GMT -4
I took part of the MMPI this afternoon. Anyone aware of psychology even on an amateur level, which I am, can tell which ones have to do with schiozphrenia, and it is flat amazing how many of them some of our local HB types would answer yes.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 12, 2007 8:54:25 GMT -4
... and it is flat amazing how many of them some of our local HB types would answer yes. Answer yes to what question?
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Post by inconceivable on Jul 12, 2007 10:53:00 GMT -4
Now could the temperature in the building be lowered enough to simulate the temperature of the moon. While cooling the helium to this temperature what sort of environment would this create. Would this create a liquid hydrogen environment?
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Post by ishmael on Jul 12, 2007 10:53:03 GMT -4
I took part of the MMPI this afternoon. Anyone aware of psychology even on an amateur level, which I am, can tell which ones have to do with schiozphrenia, and it is flat amazing how many of them some of our local HB types would answer yes. I'm starting to wonder about myself when I see entire posts suddenly disappear from this thread. Or is that paranoia?
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Post by ishmael on Jul 12, 2007 10:54:11 GMT -4
Now could the temperature in the building be lowered enough to simulate the temperature of the moon. While cooling the helium to this temperature what sort of environment would this create. Would this create a liquid hydrogen environment? You'd have to cool helium an awful lot before you'd have liquid hydrogen.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jul 12, 2007 10:56:30 GMT -4
I took part of the MMPI this afternoon. Anyone aware of psychology even on an amateur level, which I am, can tell which ones have to do with schiozphrenia, and it is flat amazing how many of them some of our local HB types would answer yes. I'm starting to wonder about myself when I see entire posts suddenly disappear from this thread. Or is that paranoia? Well, since no posts have been removed...
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 12, 2007 11:11:00 GMT -4
Well, since no posts have been removed... Actually, I believe Jay must have deleted a post. He had written a response to my post #36 that's not here anymore.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jul 12, 2007 11:22:23 GMT -4
Oh. I wasn't sure if you guys could delete your own posts or not... I'm surprised HB's haven't done that more often.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 12, 2007 11:27:19 GMT -4
Now could the temperature in the building be lowered enough to simulate the temperature of the moon. Why would you need to do that? No one looking at the faked pictures is going to know or care want the temperature is. Furthermore, there is no way to simulate the thermal conditions on the Moon when there is an atmosphere present. The Moon is a vacuum, which can't be simulated in a helium filled chamber. But if you did want to cool the temperature ... There are a couple facilities at NASA's Plum Brook Station in Ohio that simulates a space-like environment by cooling the walls of the chamber with cryogenic liquids (liquid nitrogen, I think). The same method might be possible here, though I don't know on how big of a scale it is practical. While cooling the helium to this temperature what sort of environment would this create. Would this create a liquid hydrogen(?) environment? The boiling point of helium is something like -269 o C (4 o K). There is no place on the Moon that cold, so a simulated lunar environment would never liquefy helium.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 12, 2007 11:34:06 GMT -4
Oh. I wasn't sure if you guys could delete your own posts or not... I can; I assume everyone else can as well. I'm surprised HB's haven't done that more often. Sssh, don't give them ideas.
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