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Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 17, 2005 14:26:44 GMT -4
Yep.
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Post by margamatix on Sept 17, 2005 14:41:21 GMT -4
I originally read that "Space Race" was a joint US- Russian venture, so I was surprised that it hadn't been shown in the US first. I've now read that it was a BBC production, but still with large financial input from the US.
I presume the programme will soon be shown Stateside- anyone know for sure?
Personally, although I watch very little TV, I am going to be watching this series when I can- I don't watch TV during the week because of work so I am getting Mrs Margamatix to videotape it.
Although drama isn't my thing, I did enjoy it, and there was a fair amount of factual information. For example, more people died building the V2 rockets than were killed by them in the London raids. My Mum and Dad, who are both still alive, remember the sheer terror of these raids, and of the V1 raids very clearly.
To my mind, Von Braun should have been hanged for his part in the V2 programme. "I was only obeying orders" didn't save anyone at the Nuremburg trials, and it's a disgrace that he never even had to account for his role in WW2, but was instead lionised for his "value"
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Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 17, 2005 15:28:55 GMT -4
To my mind, Von Braun should have been hanged for his part in the V2 programme. "I was only obeying orders" didn't save anyone at the Nuremburg trials, and it's a disgrace that he never even had to account for his role in WW2, but was instead lionised for his "value" Should all of the Brits involved in building the Lancaster bombers be charged with war crimes also? I'm sure the German public were just as terrified of them as the Brits were of the V2. Weapons are built during wars. Should only the weapon designers of the losing side be punished?
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Post by Sticks on Sept 17, 2005 15:34:35 GMT -4
There is still the issue of the slave labour camps.
On our side we did not resort to such inhumane practices. According to the BBC drama Von Braun did have some culpability with respect to the slave labour camps. He was never brought to book for that .
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Post by margamatix on Sept 17, 2005 15:38:29 GMT -4
Weapons are built during wars. Should only the weapon designers of the losing side be punished? Perhaps "the side which started it" would be a better starting point. It's true that Von Braun is loathed in Europe, and we are baffled by the way in which he was feted by the USA, in much the same way as you would be baffled if we in Europe lionised Mohammed Atta simply because of his skill and expertise. But we wouldn't do that.
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Post by skinbath on Sept 17, 2005 16:09:48 GMT -4
There is still the issue of the slave labour camps. On our side we did not resort to such inhumane practices. According to the BBC drama Von Braun did have some culpability with respect to the slave labour camps. He was never brought to book for that . Re V2 production line..... I think the phrase used was personally responsible for selection of labour.......
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Sept 17, 2005 16:19:40 GMT -4
Weapons are built during wars. Should only the weapon designers of the losing side be punished? Perhaps "the side which started it" would be a better starting point. The side that started it will only get blamed if they lose.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 17, 2005 17:14:00 GMT -4
Assuming for a second that Von Braun was directly responsible for the slave labour, don't you think it's good that he redeemed himself in some way by doing something beneficial to society with his knowledge of rocketry?
Look at it this way... if he had been designing chemical or biological weapons and then after the war the US put him to work on a cure for cancer would you still be so willing to condemn him? Or would you rather lock him up and let him waste his talents playing chess in a prison cell for the rest of his life?
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Post by Sticks on Sept 17, 2005 17:44:33 GMT -4
And what of justice ?
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Post by margamatix on Sept 17, 2005 18:02:30 GMT -4
Look at it this way... if he had been designing chemical or biological weapons and then after the war the US put him to work on a cure for cancer would you still be so willing to condemn him? If the US saved the necks of the men who poured Zyklon B into the gas chambers simply because they might be able to discover a cure for cancer at some stage in the future as a result of their work, then I would condemn both it and them. The behaviour of the US in regard to Von Braun can only be described as disgusting. This was a man who was directly responsible for the genocide of thousands. He should have faced the Nuremburg trials, and stated his case there. Instead, he was provided with a life of luxury simply because of his propaganda value.
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Post by skinbath on Sept 17, 2005 18:13:55 GMT -4
Assuming for a second that Von Braun was directly responsible for the slave labour, don't you think it's good that he redeemed himself in some way by doing something beneficial to society with his knowledge of rocketry?? There`s obviously no way he was responsible for the enslavement of the labour....rather he oversaw the selection of available enslaved labour (a small difference I know,but worth mentioning)....he was also under no illusion as to his fate were he to fail in the development of weaponry....he really had little choice....it`s also made clear (in the first episode) that his main aim or goal was to develop rocketry for space travel.....the moral issues are another matter and not easily addressed.
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Post by margamatix on Sept 17, 2005 18:21:36 GMT -4
Ja! He vozz only obeying zee orders!!!
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Sept 17, 2005 18:22:44 GMT -4
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Post by skinbath on Sept 17, 2005 18:26:06 GMT -4
Ja! He vozz only obeying zee orders!!! There you go jumping to conclusions again.....
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Post by LunarOrbit on Sept 17, 2005 18:32:04 GMT -4
So you would throw away a chance to cure cancer to get "justice" (it seems to me like you really mean "revenge")? What a waste.
Throwing Von Braun in prison (or executing him) would not have brought back the lives he may have been responsible for ending. Letting him continue his research into rocketry has since since saved lives. You think Von Brauns contributions are limited to putting men on the moon, but rockets have done much more than that to benefit humanity. How many people, for example, evacuated New Orleans because a weather satellite warned them that a Category 5 hurricane was headed their way?
I'm not condoning slave labour, but imprisoning or executing someone like Von Braun who could contribute great things to society is a waste. It would have been a waste of his talents and compounded the waste of the lives of the people who died in the labour camps. By continuing his research for peaceful purposes the people who lost their lives did not do so solely for weapon research. The people in those camps helped put people on the moon.
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