|
Post by echnaton on Aug 12, 2009 14:37:09 GMT -4
But, the CSM would have less than 1.8 hours to drop down a bit, pick up the lander, and get back into orbit before crashing into the moon
I guess that is what would have to happen. The CSM would have to put itself on a collision course with the moon to meet up with the LM. Then transfer the passengers, dump the ascent stage and do a burn to get back into a stable orbit. I wonder if NASA would have even authorized such an attempt? You certainly couldn't do it without ground support.
|
|
|
Post by homobibiens on Aug 12, 2009 14:50:14 GMT -4
But, the CSM would have less than 1.8 hours to drop down a bit, pick up the lander, and get back into orbit before crashing into the moonI guess that is what would have to happen. The CSM would have to put itself on a collision course with the moon to meet up with the LM. Then transfer the passengers, dump the ascent stage and do a burn to get back into a stable orbit. I wonder if NASA would have even authorized such an attempt? You certainly couldn't do it without ground support. Not to mention cutting the LM loose with the other two astronauts in it, if the astronaut in the CSM realizes they're not going to make it in time . . . I suppose if the LM crew know they don't have enough fuel to make it to orbit and there is no way the CSM can pick them up, they can decide whether they want it to be quick or slow
|
|
|
Post by drewid on Aug 13, 2009 4:18:28 GMT -4
Did they have "another way out", like cyanide capsules or something, just in case it all went horribly wrong? Or was it never contemplated in those terms?
|
|
Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
|
Post by Al Johnston on Aug 13, 2009 4:53:02 GMT -4
I think there were enough valves and hatches that could be opened for cyanide to be redundant...
|
|
|
Post by echnaton on Aug 13, 2009 11:16:14 GMT -4
But, the CSM would have less than 1.8 hours to drop down a bit, pick up the lander, and get back into orbit before crashing into the moonI guess that is what would have to happen. The CSM would have to put itself on a collision course with the moon to meet up with the LM. Then transfer the passengers, dump the ascent stage and do a burn to get back into a stable orbit. I wonder if NASA would have even authorized such an attempt? You certainly couldn't do it without ground support. Not to mention cutting the LM loose with the other two astronauts in it, if the astronaut in the CSM realizes they're not going to make it in time . . . I suppose if the LM crew know they don't have enough fuel to make it to orbit and there is no way the CSM can pick them up, they can decide whether they want it to be quick or slow A faster thought risky way to transfer would have been to open both hatches, maneuver the ships close together and jump. That would have made a great scene for a movie. I can see the drama when as the ships separate, the second jumper get tangled with something floating around the cabin and misses the CSM The astronaut just floats off on a collision course with the moon telling the CMP not to try to rescue him.
|
|
|
Post by laurel on Aug 13, 2009 13:00:55 GMT -4
Did they have "another way out", like cyanide capsules or something, just in case it all went horribly wrong? Or was it never contemplated in those terms? According to the book Lost Moon (now retitled Apollo 13) by Jim Lovell and Jeffrey Kluger, astronauts didn't have suicide pills but there were persistent rumours that they did.
|
|
|
Post by gonetoplaid on Aug 13, 2009 18:31:46 GMT -4
I'm willing to bet that the astronauts really did have suicide pills, but at the same time I can understand why NASA would never, ever publicly admit this.
|
|
|
Post by Kiwi on Aug 14, 2009 9:26:57 GMT -4
I'm willing to bet that the astronauts really did have suicide pills, but at the same time I can understand why NASA would never, ever publicly admit this. From the commentary track on the DVD of Al Reinert's movie For All Mankind: 0:36:34 Gene Cernan: But, you know, people think that we had a poison needle or a pill or something to take on the surface of the moon and they really want to know — we didn't, by the way — they really want to know what we would have done had we not been able to get off the lunar surface. And, you know, I really don't know what I would have done, and thank God I don't have to worry about that now. I didn't go to the moon not to come back, I didn't go to the moon to be a martyr. We sort of legislated out the possibility that that would happen. We were so involved in training for realistic emergencies that we didn't have time to worry too much about the things that we planned not to happen. Now, having said that, we knew we were vulnerable to a whole host of unknown problems, a la Apollo 13. On the other hand, every conceivable emergency we could think and plan for, we were prepared for, and we almost dared something to fail because as I say, that arrogance, if you will, that you had to have to get you there, would take over and you said, "I know I can handle any kind of emergency and any kind of problem that occurs." 0:37:470:37:50 Chapter 9: "This is a really rugged planet" 0:37:50 Gene Cernan: Did you think Alan Shepard would not have continued his descent and landed on the moon just because he lost the landing radar? Not on a bet, not on a bet. And do you think I'm going back to the moon, after having been close on Apollo 10, on Apollo 17 and I'm not going to risk my neck, but as long as I'm in control, we were going to land. It was going to be our day, if you will. And it was just a feeling that prevailed. 0:38:19
|
|
|
Post by echnaton on Aug 15, 2009 15:11:15 GMT -4
I'm willing to bet that the astronauts really did have suicide pills, but at the same time I can understand why NASA would never, ever publicly admit this. All they needed to do was pull the CO2 filter and they would be poisoned soon enough.
|
|
|
Post by homobibiens on Aug 15, 2009 20:46:18 GMT -4
I'm willing to bet that the astronauts really did have suicide pills, but at the same time I can understand why NASA would never, ever publicly admit this. All they needed to do was pull the CO2 filter and they would be poisoned soon enough. Yes, I think if you are in a spacecraft a few hundred thousand km from earth and decide you want to kill yourself, this should not be too hard to achieve . . .
|
|
|
Post by gonetoplaid on Aug 15, 2009 22:52:06 GMT -4
^^ Except all such fairly quick death alternatives would have been painful. On a twisted note, you gotta wonder if the NASA doctors had some interest in seeing how long it takes an astronaut to die if the mission hit the fan.
|
|
|
Post by homobibiens on Aug 15, 2009 23:55:42 GMT -4
^^ Except all such fairly quick death alternatives would have been painful. I expect it would be pretty much instantaneous if you launch into a suborbital trajectory, and just wait to crash back into the moon. On a twisted note, you gotta wonder if the NASA doctors had some interest in seeing how long it takes an astronaut to die if the mission hit the fan. If they did, I think they probably would have kept quiet about this interest
|
|
vq
Earth
What time is it again?
Posts: 129
|
Post by vq on Aug 16, 2009 4:02:54 GMT -4
Yikes, this thread has gone macabre. So to sum up, the LM had to make some sort of orbital trajectory for the rendezvous to occur but the CSM had enough spare dV to reach the LM as long as they made it to orbit.
|
|
|
Post by homobibiens on Aug 16, 2009 17:47:23 GMT -4
A faster thought risky way to transfer would have been to open both hatches, maneuver the ships close together and jump. That would have made a great scene for a movie. I can see the drama when as the ships separate, the second jumper get tangled with something floating around the cabin and misses the CSM The astronaut just floats off on a collision course with the moon telling the CMP not to try to rescue him. Oddly enough, I just caught part of Mission to Mars on the television, and that's just about what they did.
|
|
|
Post by homobibiens on Aug 16, 2009 17:49:37 GMT -4
Yikes, this thread has gone macabre. So to sum up, the LM had to make some sort of orbital trajectory for the rendezvous to occur but the CSM had enough spare dV to reach the LM as long as they made it to orbit. I think the first part (LM has to make orbit) seems to be the consensus, although not based on any in-depth analysis. I'm not sure anyone has researched the second issue, about whether the CSM has enough fuel, has been established, although it does seem like the requirement to change lunar orbits is relatively small given its overall fuel demands.
|
|