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Post by turbonium on Apr 1, 2006 2:44:17 GMT -4
You have stated several times that the autopsy was shoddy and unprofessional. You have stressed that it is not suitable for assessing the true state of JFK's wounds. You have dismissed the photographic and X-ray evidence insisting that they are of too low in quality to be useful. Here, however, you suggest that merely standing there watching an important autopsy is enough to accurately assess and report complex head wounds years or decades after the fact.
We can only work with the available evidence in trying to arrive at the most likely explanation for what actually happened - that is the reality of the situation. Your contention above is that the documentary evidence outweighs the testimonial evidence. But does it?
The autopsy was so shoddy as to be considered useless for purposes of a proper investigation. The photos and x-rays are similarily useless, due to poor quality and / or false representation of known facts and conditions of the body.
You feel eyewitness testimony is a very weak type of evidence, because it can often be unreliable, inaccurate, inconsistent, etc. So what do we know about the Parkland witnesses and their testimony? Do they lack merit based on these criteria?
Many of the witnesses testified as expert witnesses. The other witnesses testified as non-experts, in the form of unqualified opinions or inferences that are rationally based on their perceptions of what they witnessed.
The expert witnesses all described seeing the same size and location of wounds in their testimony. That means their testimonial evidence was reliable, accurate and consistent. The other witnesses all agreed with what the expert witnesses described in their testimony. Corroborating with the expert testimony validates the non-expert testimony as reliable, accurate, and consistent as well.
This investigation, as any other, has to accurately weigh the evidence supporting each hypothesis, comparing each one's reliability and relevance. It seems abundantly clear to me which body of evidence outweighs the other. The testimonial evidence is vastly superior in reliability, accuracy and relevance to the material evidence.
Do you propose an argument for the opposite case?
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Dec 6, 2006 13:01:04 GMT -4
I don’t know if someone can help me out. IIRC an expert witness, I think he was an FBI agent, testified before the Warren Commission (or was it the HSCA?) that MC rifles made in different factories could have the same serial number but not ones made in the same factory. But I’m not sure where to look. I guess I could comb through the Warren Commission transcripts for a few hours but if anybody knows where the testimony is that would save me a lot of time.
Len
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Post by gillianren on Dec 6, 2006 15:46:27 GMT -4
I don't know; I do, however, know that the name of the program discussed way back 20 pages ago is Unsolved History; it did, indeed, air on the Discovery Channel. It is currently available through Netflix.
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Post by 3onthetree on Dec 7, 2006 3:04:54 GMT -4
This sums up the JFK conspiracy for me.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Dec 7, 2006 11:57:08 GMT -4
Define "they".
What makes you think she would have known who the killer (or killers) were before there was even an investigation?
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Post by 3onthetree on Dec 7, 2006 20:32:52 GMT -4
Define "they". What makes you think she would have known who the killer (or killers) were before there was even an investigation? I'm in poor form as a conspiracist at the moment so I'd better not try and define "they". She knew who she meant, that's enough for me.
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Post by Tanalia on Dec 7, 2006 22:57:38 GMT -4
In this context "they" is likely just a nebulous "whoever", not necessarily implying knowledge of quantity or identity. In other words, "Let whoever did this see what they have done".
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Jul 13, 2007 10:48:55 GMT -4
Some people think this is "Poppa Doc" Bush. I think it could be but image quality is way too poor to tell one way or the other. He claimed to have been in Tyler, Texas at the time
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Post by turbonium on Jul 14, 2007 2:09:04 GMT -4
It sure looks like Poppy Bush to me.
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Post by turbonium on Jul 14, 2007 2:32:26 GMT -4
Since this thread has been revived, it's a good time to now address the most important point about the Magic Bullet Theory... The concluding page of the Bethesda autopsy report states: "The other missile [referring to the body-penetrating bullet] entered the right superior posterior thorax above the scapula, and traversed the soft tissues of the supra-scapular and the supra-clavicular portions of the base of the right side of the neck. This missile produced contusions of the right apical parietal pleura and of the apical portion of the right upper lobe of the lung. The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the neck, damaged the trachea, and made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck." The last sentence, which I've highlighted above, is what I want to focus on. This is also the conclusion of the Warren Commission in their Report. In a nutshell, that the bullet entered the back of the neck, traveled through the neck, and then exited the throat - and never hitting anything hard, such as bone. It is an absolutely false claim. Dr. David W. Mantik has conducted research which proves that no bullet could have entered and exited the neck at the locations claimed by the WC without impacting the cervical verteba. The Magic Bullet Theory is anatomically impossible. Which means the entire Lone Nutter Theory (Oswald) is also impossible.
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Post by Tanalia on Jul 14, 2007 5:37:45 GMT -4
Unless his head was turned.
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Post by Joe Durnavich on Jul 14, 2007 7:24:12 GMT -4
Dr. David W. Mantik has conducted research which proves that no bullet could have entered and exited the neck at the locations claimed by the WC without impacting the cervical verteba.
The CAT scan Mantik uses is not representative of the Single Bullet Theory. Mantik's CAT scan is a 2-dimensional, horizontal slice taken at the level of the C7 vertebra. The SBT proposes at the bullet entered the back at the level of C7, but then traveled downwards towards the 2nd or 3rd tracheal ring in the throat, exiting pretty close to the sternal notch. The bullet would have been below the level of C7's transverse process by the time it crossed it. The geometry of the transverse processes (the parts of the vertebrae that stick out to the sides) changes between C7 and T1. In other words, Mantik's CAT scan is from too high of a level to tell us anything about the SBT.
Mantik needs to consider the problem in 3 dimensions.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 15, 2007 14:44:48 GMT -4
The Magic Bullet Theory is anatomically impossible. Which means the entire Lone Nutter Theory (Oswald) is also impossible. Is it? My understanding (and I've not budgetted for the Bugliosi yet, I'm afraid--and you have to admit, the man knows his conspiracies) is that the two are not essentially linked. You can, in fact, have one without the other. It just makes more sense to have the one with the other. Where were any other shots fired from? What evidence is there of it--including and especially evidence that fits with the known ballistics and medical data?
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Post by turbonium on Jul 16, 2007 2:25:52 GMT -4
Dr. David W. Mantik has conducted research which proves that no bullet could have entered and exited the neck at the locations claimed by the WC without impacting the cervical verteba.The CAT scan Mantik uses is not representative of the Single Bullet Theory. Mantik's CAT scan is a 2-dimensional, horizontal slice taken at the level of the C7 vertebra. The SBT proposes at the bullet entered the back at the level of C7, but then traveled downwards towards the 2nd or 3rd tracheal ring in the throat, exiting pretty close to the sternal notch. The bullet would have been below the level of C7's transverse process by the time it crossed it. The geometry of the transverse processes (the parts of the vertebrae that stick out to the sides) changes between C7 and T1. In other words, Mantik's CAT scan is from too high of a level to tell us anything about the SBT. Mantik needs to consider the problem in 3 dimensions. Here are two additional views of the relevant area which will help us.... Look at the left-side image, and see if you can point out where the bullet have exited at the throat - as the SBT proposes - without hitting any vertebrae?
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Post by Ranb on Jul 16, 2007 12:19:32 GMT -4
The neck consists of far more than the spine. The bullet entered the back right side of the neck and crossed over to nearly the middle of the throat in front. As the bullet path was at an angle, it could do this and miss the spine.
Ranb
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