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Post by rustylander on Mar 4, 2006 22:18:56 GMT -4
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Post by twinstead on Mar 4, 2006 22:25:38 GMT -4
Do you mean dare think about it, or dare do it? I wonder how many governments world-wide have had a bunch of megalomaniacs sit around and bullsh*t about stuff like that. The real question is just how does that prove anything about 911?
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Post by Dead Hoosiers on Mar 4, 2006 22:36:43 GMT -4
I don't think Rusty is trying to prove 9/11 with that article. It's just proof that some factions of our government have been up to no good for quite some time and they're still at it--for those of you who still think we're the good guys.
The only countries with megalomaniacs sitting around planning this stuff are the ones with the means to carry it out, but not necessarily all of them, but IMO virtually all of them have people at the top who would jump on the bandwagon in a heartbeat.
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Post by turbonium on Mar 4, 2006 22:54:44 GMT -4
I wonder how many governments world-wide have had a bunch of megalomaniacs sit around and bullsh*t about stuff like that.
I think the scary part is that the JCS would actually come up with this stuff and then approve it. These "megalomaniacs" were the top military leaders of the country. Only two more people - McNamara and Kennedy - had to give it the green light and it would have been implemented! That's truly horrific.
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Post by twinstead on Mar 4, 2006 23:06:11 GMT -4
I wonder how many governments world-wide have had a bunch of megalomaniacs sit around and bullsh*t about stuff like that.I think the scary part is that the JCS would actually come up with this stuff and then approve it. These "megalomaniacs" were the top military leaders of the country. Only two more people - McNamara and Kennedy - had to give it the green light and it would have been implemented! That's truly horrific. Yea, horrific it is indeed. I'm sure however that the military and government pays people to sit around and come up with crap like that even to this day. it would not surprise me that there is a plan to invade and occupy Canada, or a plan on the table describing which major cities in Europe would need to be nuked if the situation ever warranted it.
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Post by turbonium on Mar 4, 2006 23:21:29 GMT -4
Kliban cartoons that may be closer to the truth than we know!!
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Mar 5, 2006 19:29:06 GMT -4
The 1st 2 paragraaghs of Rusty's article:
"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.
Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. "
Even if the documents are authentic and say what the author says they do, what evidence is there that the plans go beyond the brainstorming phase?
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Post by turbonium on Mar 7, 2006 0:52:20 GMT -4
"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.
Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. "
Even if the documents are authentic and say what the author says they do, what evidence is there that the plans go beyond the brainstorming phase?
The document is authentic, and first published by the National Security Archive. And though you are referring to a link describing what the document "reportedly" contains, it actually does contain such points.....
"We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized."
The JCS did likely come up with the suggested actions in the document through "brainstorming", but it was signed and fully approved by Lemnitzer and the rest of the Joint Chiefs, and addressed to the Secretary of Defense for his signature. The actual document has been posted online at several sites...
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Post by twinstead on Mar 7, 2006 6:43:33 GMT -4
It appears the even a simple brainstorming session couldn't be kept secret...just how again was this magnificently complex plan pulled off on 911?
To me, and probably to others of us here, It never has been a question of if the government was capable of thinking about stuff like this but always a question of whether they could pull off something like 911; in complexity this would rival the moon hoax, and in risk...well, being discovered faking the moon landings would be a walk in the park compared to being discovered killing thousands of your own citizens.
I realize Turbonium your views are more complex and you understand Northwoods for what it is, but there are actually people out there who believe that Northwoods proves the government was in on 911, no other evidence needed.
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Post by turbonium on Mar 8, 2006 4:54:13 GMT -4
I realize Turbonium your views are more complex and you understand Northwoods for what it is, but there are actually people out there who believe that Northwoods proves the government was in on 911, no other evidence needed.
That's quite true, twin - some people do point at the document and say it is "proof" that 9/11 was a Gov't job. I consider Northwoods significant in that it removes any doubt that "Our Gov't(s) would never even consider such things". It documents just how wackos can exist in any profession, in any country - and even in the top echelons of the military.
But the JCS of 1963 was not the JCS of 2001. If an "Operation 9/11" document was to surface, then saying that that is "proof" of Gov't involvement would have some measure of validity. Germans can't point to what Hitler did and say it "proves" their current Gov't is therefore evil.
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Mar 8, 2006 10:00:38 GMT -4
"We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized."The JCS did likely come up with the suggested actions in the document through "brainstorming", but it was signed and fully approved by Lemnitzer and the rest of the Joint Chiefs, and addressed to the Secretary of Defense for his signature. The actual document has been posted online at several sites... In any case a "real or simulated" sinking of a "boatload of Cubans" is a far cry from killing thousands of Americans. In their mindset lives of foreigners were worth far less than those of their fellow citizens. In a simulated sinking it's possible that no one would die. I found the report below interesting. If they were worried about leaks in 1962 for operations that required reletively few people and would "only" kill a handful of Cubans, imagine the concerns in 2001, after numerous CIA and other covert agents had gone public, defected or caught selling secrets, for an operation that would require many participants that would kill thousand of Americans.
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Post by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on Mar 11, 2006 11:21:13 GMT -4
But non of them wrote a memo saying: . But they are Reds, so everything goes. It's amazing how we managed to survive the Cold war.
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