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Post by PhantomWolf on Apr 25, 2006 2:53:10 GMT -4
Difficult to find evidence than thermite can be used at the basement for weakening the central core pillars after all the steel not needed for the elaboration of the official story was removed and destroyed.
There would still be things that would prove it though. If you want to claim that the core was dropped, by theremite of anything else, then you come up with the physical effects that would have on the towers, and show that those occured, included things like the basements collapsing, the surviving floors having the core dropped inside them and survivors who recall the floors beneth them falling away prior to the building collapsing on top of them.
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Post by 911: Inside Job on Apr 25, 2006 11:52:04 GMT -4
For Thermite to be a better answer to the 911 collapses that Fire and Plane damage, then it's up to the 911: Inside Job and Dr Jones of this world to come up with a consistant and viable theory, backed with evidence and proof that is more than conjecture and then show that it better fits the facts using less assumptions, than the Official Planes + Fire Theory. So far the 911 CT group has done little but cause FUD, make assumptions and dig up what they claim are Anomolies all while accusing anyone that won't agree of being blind or in on it. That's not Science. The scientific method consists of looking at the facts and finding a theory which best explains them. That's what the thermite theory attempts to do, along with all the other theories, including the official one. Since all the evidence has been confiscated and/or destroyed by the government, all we have left is the videos, and the recorded eye-witness accounts. The official theory can't adequately explain the high 2000+ degree temperatures in the rubble or the white smoke. Those kind of temperatures and smoke are not consistant with a smoldering fire or even a raging inferno caused by jet fuel, which can barely reach 1500 degrees under ideal conditions. Thermite mixed with sulfur can easily go above 2000 degrees F. The rising white smoke seen at the bottom of the WTC 1 shortly before the collapse is best explained by thermite cutting through the bottom supports, triggering the collapse of the building.
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Post by jaydeehess on Apr 25, 2006 13:33:58 GMT -4
Yeesh, you are taking two points and extrapolating them, in the face of other evidence, into a thermite burn that dropped the core!
As has been said, IF thermite was used to drop the core this would be readily noticed by anyone who was in the core, ie. on the stairs. It would be noticed by anyone on any floor as the floors would have to then tip towards the core. No one, no one at all, ever has stated that the core was lower than the perimeter floors (below the impact floors ) thus we can all safely assume that it was not. Thermite DOES NOT explain the temps of the rubble fires unless you are assuming absolutely huge (tons and tons) of thermite was there and burning for many weeks. What does explain the rubble fires are analogies to coal mine fires and the insulating properties of the rubble pile. Diasite(sulfur and thermite) gives off hydrogen sulfide(rotten egg smelling) gas when in the presence of water. Miollions of gallons of water was poured on the rubble pile yet no reports of great quantities of H2S
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Post by twinstead on Apr 25, 2006 13:49:27 GMT -4
IMO, most CTs are simply acting in the capacity of slimy defense lawyers who are trying desperately to sow some kind of doubt to get their obviously guilty clients off by using unfounded conjecture, bad science, rumors, ideology, and emotion under the guise of 'trying to find the truth'.
Why can't the '911 truth movement' get qualified structural engineers to join their ranks? Why doesn't a demolitions expert step forward and describe exactly how the industry would be able to demolish those three buildings?
These techniques of finding conspiracy in every event began with events like the moon landings have been honed to perfection with 911. All we can ever look forward to from now on after every major event that ever takes place is somebody with access to create a web site claiming it is a conspiracy.
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Post by 911: Inside Job on Apr 25, 2006 14:25:54 GMT -4
As has been said, IF thermite was used to drop the core this would be readily noticed by anyone who was in the core, ie. on the stairs. It would be noticed by anyone on any floor as the floors would have to then tip towards the core. No one, no one at all, ever has stated that the core was lower than the perimeter floors (below the impact floors ) thus we can all safely assume that it was not. Thermite DOES NOT explain the temps of the rubble fires unless you are assuming absolutely huge (tons and tons) of thermite was there and burning for many weeks. What does explain the rubble fires are analogies to coal mine fires and the insulating properties of the rubble pile. Diasite(sulfur and thermite) gives off hydrogen sulfide(rotten egg smelling) gas when in the presence of water. Miollions of gallons of water was poured on the rubble pile yet no reports of great quantities of H2S - A fire can't produce higher temperatures than its fuel and air supply are capable of feeding. You don't get those temperatures for those lengths of time from smoldering office furniture. How does the official report account for the high temperatures? It ignores it.
- How does the official report explain the smoke at the base of the tower rising just before the collapse? It ignores it.
- Smoldering fires produce black smoke. How does the official report explain the white smoke coming from the rubble? It ignores it.
- Gravitational collapse and jet fuel don't liquefy steel. How does the official report explain the numerous reports of molten steel in the rubble? It ignores it.
The 9-11 report simply ignored any and all evidence that contradicted its preconceived findings. All the hard evidence was shipped off to scrap yards outside the country.
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Post by phunk on Apr 25, 2006 15:18:04 GMT -4
- A fire can't produce higher temperatures than its fuel and air supply are capable of feeding. You don't get those temperatures for those lengths of time from smoldering office furniture. How does the official report account for the high temperatures? It ignores it.
You don't get those temperatures for that amount of time from thermite, thermite has its own oxidizer so it burns quickly. You're making the same mistake that every CT seems to make, assuming that each substance has a fixed burn temperature. Coal doesn't normally burn hot enough in open air to melt steel, but that doesn't mean I can't melt steel in my backyard with a coal burning furnace. How can you possibly know what kind of conditions existed inside that rubble pile well enough to say those temperatures couldn't be reached? A single video on the web shows a white area in a crack between 2 buildings about 2 pixels wide. Can you conclusively say that IS smoke and it's coming from the base of the tower and not something else on the ground? How come none of the cameramen filming from street level noticed this and turned their camera towards the base of the building before the collapse? Did you stop to consider that the white smoke was not just smoke, it was smoke and steam? They were trying to put out the rubble pile for a long time. Numerous reports? I've only seen 1 first hand account of someone talking about red hot steel, and everyone else was secondhand accounts mostly misquoting the first guy. With the thousands of pics taken durning the cleanup, where are the pics of the pools of metal? When those pools of metal solidified, how did nobody notice the huge slabs being removed? Every piece of debris was examined at the landfill. It wasn't just whisked away without any investigation. Steel melted by thermite would have been very obvious, so you must be suggesting that the cleanup crew and everyone at the landfill was also in on the coverup?
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
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Post by Al Johnston on Apr 25, 2006 15:38:43 GMT -4
no reports of great quantities of H2S No asphyxiated corpses among the rubble-clearers either: H 2S is instantly lethal at 500ppm concentration.
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Post by Count Zero on Apr 25, 2006 21:50:53 GMT -4
[/li][li] Smoldering fires produce black smoke. [/quote] This is patently false. Anyone with any firefighting training can tell you that Class A fires, which involve wood, paper, etc., produce light-colored smoke (which can appear white in sunlight or against a dark background). Black smoke indicates a Class B fire - oil, rubber or other petroleum product. It is reasonable to expect burning Class A material to have fallen around the base of the towers following the aircraft impacts. It is not reasonable to believe that large quantities of explosives could have been installed around structural members in an occupied and heavily trafficked office building without a lot of people noticing.
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Post by 911: Inside Job on Apr 25, 2006 22:00:06 GMT -4
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Post by phunk on Apr 25, 2006 22:23:53 GMT -4
Impressive, you can link to a ct website. Have any thoughts of your own?
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Post by frenat on Apr 25, 2006 22:54:27 GMT -4
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Post by jaydeehess on Apr 26, 2006 0:03:46 GMT -4
no reports of great quantities of H2S No asphyxiated corpses among the rubble-clearers either: H 2S is instantly lethal at 500ppm concentration. Partly what I was getting at. At very small concentrations it is a highly disgusting odor, at higher concentrations it damages tissue including the lungs and is , as you point out, lethal.
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Post by jaydeehess on Apr 26, 2006 0:07:05 GMT -4
[/li][li] Smoldering fires produce black smoke. [/quote] This is patently false. Anyone with any firefighting training can tell you that Class A fires, which involve wood, paper, etc., produce light-colored smoke (which can appear white in sunlight or against a dark background). Black smoke indicates a Class B fire - oil, rubber or other petroleum product. It is reasonable to expect burning Class A material to have fallen around the base of the towers following the aircraft impacts. It is not reasonable to believe that large quantities of explosives could have been installed around structural members in an occupied and heavily trafficked office building without a lot of people noticing.[/quote] Garbage dump fires can produce white smoke, so can house fires, grass fires are often white smoke. Given that burning debris( and the occasional human) fell from those towers it is quite reasonable to asume some fires being started at ground level.
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 26, 2006 2:09:02 GMT -4
Impressive, you can link to a ct website. Have any thoughts of your own? Your reply to 911: Inside Job sounds like if you are ... Short of arguments Phunk?
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Post by feelfree222 on Apr 26, 2006 2:20:02 GMT -4
Yeesh, you are taking two points and extrapolating them, in the face of other evidence, into a thermite burn that dropped the core! As has been said, IF thermite was used to drop the core this would be readily noticed by anyone who was in the core, ie. on the stairs. It would be noticed by anyone on any floor as the floors would have to then tip towards the core. No one, no one at all, ever has stated that the core was lower than the perimeter floors (below the impact floors ) thus we can all safely assume that it was not. Thermite DOES NOT explain the temps of the rubble fires unless you are assuming absolutely huge (tons and tons) of thermite was there and burning for many weeks. What does explain the rubble fires are analogies to coal mine fires and the insulating properties of the rubble pile. Diasite(sulfur and thermite) gives off hydrogen sulfide(rotten egg smelling) gas when in the presence of water. Miollions of gallons of water was poured on the rubble pile yet no reports of great quantities of H2S Note than you are actually cutting in piece some argument made in one of Greening paper...about his "natural" thermite reaction theory caused by the molten aluminium from the plane and the aluminium contained in the WTC .... he explain the high temperature by a -hydrogen and sulfur reaction occuring below the rubble pile... or something lilke that. www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf
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