lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on May 9, 2006 23:23:53 GMT -4
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Post by jaydeehess on May 15, 2006 23:56:50 GMT -4
I think this lil' CT tidbit regarding the Secret Serviceis thoroughly debunked and laid to rest.
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Post by prey521 on May 16, 2006 14:50:28 GMT -4
LMAO, I agree with Jayheedees!!
Conspiracy Debunkers - 1 Conspiracy Theorists - 0
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Post by PhantomWolf on May 16, 2006 20:46:13 GMT -4
What we only get 1? I feel cheated.
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Post by echnaton on May 16, 2006 22:59:17 GMT -4
We also seem to have run poor bpd1069 off with the drubbing we gave him.
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Post by scooter on May 26, 2006 18:33:10 GMT -4
On 9/11 I seriously doubt that there were AWACS shadowing AF1. NORAD would normally monitor them via the feeds from the ATC radars. It may well be otherwise post-9/11, but the AWACS certainly would not need to be (or necessarily want to be)anywhere near the POUS plane. E-3s have very good radar range on civilian airliner type radar targets.
Dave
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Post by frenat on May 26, 2006 20:56:27 GMT -4
Before 911 though NORAD did not even look inward. They didn't have access to the ATC radar feeds. You are right though that the AWACS wouldn't have to be close to monitor AF1. They could be a couple hundred miles away and have good coverage.
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Post by twinstead on May 26, 2006 21:54:03 GMT -4
So, can we agree that this whole issue is quintessential FUD?
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golfhobo
Venus
DAMN! That woulda gone in the hole IF....
Posts: 86
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Post by golfhobo on May 28, 2006 16:19:19 GMT -4
There were ALOT of mistakes that day, but few if any by the Secret Service.
1) Only if shots are fired in the area, do they have the right/protocol to "dive on" or physically "remove" the president from any public engagement.
2) Bush was in control of that situation, and it is only HIS shame that he stayed immobile as long as he did.
3) There WERE contingency plans, and in fact my understanding is, that Bush WAS flown out of town on a "shadow" plane.
4) Many ask why he didn't return immediately to D.C. This, too, is part of the plan. As a member of the A.F. Security Command, I was well aware of what to expect if the President was out of town at the time of ANY attack, planned for or otherwise. What happened that day, was "by the numbers." (with the exception of Dubya not excusing himself earlier.)
5) BTW, a schoolbuilding IS easily identifiable from the air as a 'target.' GoogleEarth will give you a clear view of what you are looking for and GPS will give you the coordinates. But then, so is a stadium. And Bush spends MORE time in them than in school! As evidenced by his use of the Queens English! LOL! However, there WERE Awacs and fighters overhead that day. There always have been. too bad they weren't over NYC and the Capital that day. THIS is a lesson I wish, but don't believe, we've learned yet. What's LEFT of our stateside National Guard units should be actively involved in "training" missions flying "Defcaps" over our nation, its borders, and its locus of leadership. And they should be fully armed! Israel does it every day. And we are inexhorably joined to them at the hip.
6) Bush was predisposed to "go to war" to avenge his father, if for no other reason. He was actively engaged in having the intelligence "worded" to support his plans. He had NO REASON (nor did his handlers) to perpetrate such a despicable act on American citizens to get them behind him. After all.... GOD himself had ordained it! And God is NOT in the business of killing Americans just for a reason to kill Muslims. He can do that with a Tsunami or a drought!
I don't mean to malign you, bpd1069, (btw that login gives me way too much info on you,) but you are a little "sheepish," if ya know what I mean. One who "follows blindly." You raised a few valid points. But, you are ill equipped to know of which you speak, and even less equipped to accept the wisdom of those who've responded to you.
As the Indians used to say, before the internet, "so be it. It was a good death."
Hobo
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Post by jaydeehess on May 28, 2006 20:58:42 GMT -4
Hobo writes
I believe that my point was that AF1 sitting at an airport would be much easier to target than a school in a suburb in Florida. The other buildings that were targeted and hit that day the towers and the Pentagon share one glaring similarity. They are readily distiquishable from the air. The towers because they are simply the highest objects on the horizen as one flys over Manhattan(the second towers even more so since there is that hughe smoke cloud emanating from the first impact) and the Pentagon is a very unique shape as well as being a very large structure surrounded by open areas and lying alongside a major river.
Even using GPS to find an elementary school one is going to have to go visual at the end in order to fly into the ground at that point.
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Post by bpd1069 on Jul 11, 2006 11:04:53 GMT -4
Sorry, posting on forums argueing points "after the fact" is not something I do often. I am more interested in shifting through disinformation that litters the internet inorder to improve the signal-to-noise ratio concerning the Broad deception that has taken hold over my country.
In anycase, the activities of the SS were not by the numbers as by their own account and records of phone calls to Cheney at time of the event show, the President, VP, Rice were in contact at 9:15am. The President chose the time to leave the school indirectly, when he stated he wanted to make a Statement, and only after the statement (15 min. later) did the SS remove him from the school. Destination AF1.
It then took another 37 minutes to get AF1 off the ground, with No destination in mind. VP Cheney advised Bush not to return to DC, not some SS playbook. AF1 sat at the airport from 9:42-9:54am, almost half the time spent in the school after the obvious attack was underway.
And about there being only one "known" hijacked plane in the air after 9:03am and the reported hijacking of Flight77, due to the confusion caused by the multiple wargames the controllers in ZNY reported a flight turning towards the south from NY AFTER the second collision. This report, later proven to be in error (thanks war games), was thought to be Flight 11. So There was no calm, go by the numbers, plan in effect at the FAA, that is known.
And to minimize the tactical problem of multiple attacks verse a lone incident is poor reasoning to say the least. A coordinated surprise attack by its very nature has the advantage as your enemy does not have a clear indication of the scope of the attack and cannot mobilize forces appropriate to the attack. To make an assumption that since there two crashes in NY, the SS would assume the BEST case scenario is weak.
BTW, anyone get the August issue of Vanity Fair?
The war today is being fought day by day, it will not stop until the truth is known by all.
The basic fallacy of your logic gentlemen and ladies is the assumption that your government does not lie. The is an ocean of evidence showing corruption and treason from the 2000 elections through to the pyschological operation of the rise and fall of Zarqawi ending with the SCOTUS landmark case reaffirming the limitations of the executive in regards to treaties (Marbarry). Once the problem of blind faith in the governments account is cast aside perhaps you will be free to see all of the evidence, and critically analyse the information.
You are in denial, for there is physical evidence of Thermate from the slag material from the steel taken from the WTC towers, from multiple beams.
And to close, I spend most of the time I have available to open peoples eyes to the lies, to spend more than a few minutes a week argueing with those who are emotionally incapable of critical thinking is futile.
See you in DC - Sept 11, 2006...
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Post by echnaton on Jul 11, 2006 13:28:34 GMT -4
… only after the statement (15 min. later) did the SS remove him from the school.
Do you have any evidence that the SS actually remove him from the school?
The basic fallacy of your logic gentlemen and ladies is the assumption that your government does not lie.
One of the basic problems of your argument is that you assume, that we assume the government does not lie. I certainly do not. People deceive others all the time, why would employees of the government be exempt from lying?
You however seem to assume that the government is a unified entity that is capable of maintaining a covert campaign of mass murder, cover up the evidence and maintain sufficient discipline over the large number of conspirators that none of them will speak up. That is the flaw in your assumptions.
Looking at the actions of people that you have no experience in working with and finding their actions to be suspicious is not evidence.
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Post by Apollo Gnomon on Jul 11, 2006 19:25:01 GMT -4
I, for one, assume that many members my government lies frequently and often. Rumsfled and Cheney racked up enough "frequent liar miles" during the Ford administration to get them back in power, with 25 years worth of shenanigans and back-room deals to play with during the Dubya administration.
However, I don't use that to pre-judge posts by conspiracy believers. Every piece of "evidence" brought forth regarding 9/11 is judged individually, on it's own merits, and every piece of evidence that I bother to research dissolves into gibberish and misundersanding right before my eyes.
Look into your timeline for what Bush did and where he was on 9/11 and ask yourself a different question: Are Dubya's actions and reactions indicitive of some kind of weird scheme, or are they indicitive of a clueless individual wondering when he would be told what to do by whomever was truely in charge?
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Post by jaydeehess on Jul 13, 2006 13:32:39 GMT -4
In anycase, the activities of the SS were not by the numbers as by their own account and records of phone calls to Cheney at time of the event show, the President, VP, Rice were in contact at 9:15am. The President chose the time to leave the school indirectly, when he stated he wanted to make a Statement, and only after the statement (15 min. later) did the SS remove him from the school. Destination AF1. What about this makes the Secret Service actions "not by the numbers " is simply your own interpretation of what SS SOP's are. Once again , this was an attack on targets in the northeast of the USA. No other gov't officials were being targeted. GWB was in Florida. There was no discernible attack targeting any official including the President. This was an act of terrorism, acts of terrorism are usually quite limited in scope and range. What is the flight time at 500 MPH from NY to Fla? 1 hour? 1 1/2 hours? So even if this plane turning south was targeting AF1 on the tarmac in Fla. then there was ample time to get off the ground. IIRC as soon as the POTUS is on board AF1 has its engines spooled up and ready to go ASAP, even if it is then idling on the tarmac for a long time. It would take about 3 minutes for the plane to get to the runway button and another 3 minutes to be airborne and heading skyward. AF1 would not be subject to being delayed by ATC because of other traffic. Instead ATC diverts other traffic and AF1 takes priority. The only other traffic that might delay it would be a plane that is less than 2-3 minutes to touchdown. Others would be told to go around and any traffic wanting to take off would be held until AF1 left. Again, targeting a small school building in Fla. is vastly more difficult than targeting the largest offices buildings in NYC or a huge, uniguely shaped office building surrounded by parking lots and grass feilds. Targeting AF1 as it sat at an airport would be easier but now you need a system set up by which you can determine if GWB is at the school or on AF1 or you have to target both. Again, acts of terrorism are by nature limited in scope. there was simply no reason to believe that GWB was being targeted . Not me. Ramble on all you want. This particular wee bit of the day's events contains nothing unusual other than a POTUS who was frozen into inaction. The fallacy of your logic is to assume that since gov't agencies and officials will lie that everything the gov't proclaims must therefore be a lie. By your logic , if you have ever told a lie then you must always be lieing. I and others know full well that gov't agencies and officials will lie. The actions of the SS on 9/11/01 don't indicate any lie on their part. Last I heard , Jones found some sulphur. That is NOT evidence of thermate. Bye, thanks for stopping in.
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