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Post by PhantomWolf on Jul 4, 2006 18:05:23 GMT -4
The image of the concrete "metallic blob" is in the paper that 911 links to bottom of page one in this thread.
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Post by Apollo Gnomon on Jul 4, 2006 19:37:45 GMT -4
This one? If that's not concrete, then why is there rebar sticking out of it? If it was molten metal, then why didn't the rebar melt? The longer these people continue, the sillier it gets.
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Post by frenat on Jul 4, 2006 22:47:00 GMT -4
That picture also disproves the "everything was pulverized to dust" silly arguement. Obviously there were some quite lare pieces of concrete left.
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Jul 4, 2006 23:15:09 GMT -4
Utah is about as pro-Bush as it gets in this country - generally speaking we're the last people who would buy into any 9/11 conspiracy theory.Some people think the current Administration is one of the worst ever - and still don't buy this conspiracy theory either, for the simple reason it makes no sense and is contradicted by, well, facts. Count me in the latter group, damn Bush II makes me "nostalgic" for Reagan who I used to think was the worst ever!
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lenbrazil
Saturn
Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!
Posts: 1,045
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Post by lenbrazil on Jul 4, 2006 23:20:05 GMT -4
The image of the concrete "metallic blob" is in the paper that 911 links to bottom of page one in this thread. I don't remember seeing that in his paper. He keeps changing it as errors are uncovered and as he "discovers" "new evidence". I wouldn't be surprised if he edits that out. I wonder if it made it into the version published in the book.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jul 4, 2006 23:58:02 GMT -4
That picture also disproves the "everything was pulverized to dust" silly arguement. Obviously there were some quite lare pieces of concrete left.
No, no, no, no, no. You have it totally wrong. All the concrete WAS pulverised which is why this material HAS to be hardened molten metal and not concrete, even if ever blind man and his seeing eye dog can tell that. It's just been painted to look like concrete by TPB.
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Post by 911: Inside Job on Jul 6, 2006 22:23:30 GMT -4
- Citation please - The other material wouldn’t have to had mixed well with the molten aluminum only well enough to have changed it from silver (essentially colorless) to light yellow The only metals that would be available in significant quantities to discolor molten aluminum would be steel or iron. But they wouldn't be liquid at those temperatures. Carbon-based materials such as plastics or wood turn black at those temperatures, and they wouln't mix with a molten metal, they would just burn away. Might as well face it, the video shows bright yellow molten steel before the collapse. Nothing else reasonably fits the facts. A bias against conspiracy theories (except the government-approved ones) may be preventing you from seeing that. No other metal would have been liquid at those temperatures. Categorically wrong. Obviously I meant no other metal that would be present in significant quantities. It's unlikely the fires were even hot enough to liquefy aluminum at that point (melting point = 1220 °F). Categorically wrong again. According to tests carried out by Manchester University high rise fires could reach 1300 C (2372 F) Sure, some high-rise fires have gotten that hot. There's no evidence the WTC fires did. Photos show some of the victims standing near the edge of the floors, clearly alive and waiting for help that never came. If the fires were that hot they would have been dead already. By the time of the collapse, the fire appeared to be smoldering. There's no way it was hot enough to melt aluminum near the edge of the building, exposed to outside air, where the molten metal was dripping from. The sheet of steel and car hood are nowhere near as thick as it he WTC columns (1/4 inch at the top, 4 inches at the bottom and about an inch at the impact zones. They aren’t construction grade steel eitherThe thermite went through the hood and engine block to the ground in about 10 seconds. That's a lot of cast iron and hardened steel to eat through. I think that's a fair test. The monument from which the sample was supposedly taken was presumably welded. Thermate and thermite are frequently used for welding.His samples were obtained from the sculptor before he began working on them. There is no independent confirmation of Jones’ claims.We'll have to wait until he publishes his results. In the mean-time: To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this. Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies, and pause to America's friends. They encourage people of good will to remain silent in the face of evil.Attorney General John Ashcroft, Dec 6, 2001 before the Senate Judiciary Committee"We must speak the truth about terror. Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September the 11th, malicious lies that attempt to shift the blame away from the terrorists them(our)selves, away from the guilty."G.W. Bush speaking before the UN General Assembly 11/10/2001Methinks he doth protest too much.William Shakespeare
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 6, 2006 23:32:29 GMT -4
What would Shakespeare think of 9/11 theories?
"A dagger of the mind, a false creation, Proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?" -William Shakespeare
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jul 7, 2006 0:06:52 GMT -4
911, you do realise that OBL has claimed responisblity a number of times, the most rescent being in May?
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Post by 911: Inside Job on Jul 7, 2006 0:16:46 GMT -4
911, you do realise that OBL has claimed responisblity a number of times, the most rescent being in May? He died many years ago, probably of kidney failure. Why do you think "Osama" stopped making the obviously fake videos and switched to audio tape?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jul 7, 2006 0:27:53 GMT -4
He died many years ago, probably of kidney failure. Show me a body. Maybe he was seriously injured or disfigured in an attack and doesn't want us to know just how close we got to him. Or maybe he has a new appearance (ie. no beard) and doesn't want us to know about that.
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Post by 911: Inside Job on Jul 7, 2006 0:36:55 GMT -4
I'm sure this administration is sorely tempted to produce a body to show how well the War on Freedom is going. But I'm afraid they're getting way too much propaganda mileage out of pretending he's alive. So alive he remains.
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Post by Apollo Gnomon on Jul 7, 2006 1:30:51 GMT -4
And yet 9:ij still doesn't respond to my critiques of the other evidence. Perhaps a bias toward conspiracy theories is clouding his/her understanding of simple welding techniques.
Correction: the thermite is not shown to go "through" the engine block. You assume, I guess, that it goes through rather than spilling all over the outside of a dinky little in-line 4 cylinder engine to reach the ground. The video in question is hardly science, despite the spiffy cutting. You're a victim of editing and assumptions.
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Post by Apollo Gnomon on Jul 7, 2006 1:39:06 GMT -4
And another thing!
I read today a technical paper by Greening. Are you familiar with it? It responds directly to Jones' allegations of thermite. Apparently gypsum drywall is composed of CaSO4, which degrades to Ca and SO2 in reducing-atmosphere combustion. I didn't save a link for it so I'll have to look again for the specifics.
Would anyone care to comment on the Greening document?
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jul 7, 2006 3:02:19 GMT -4
He died many years ago, probably of kidney failure. Why do you think "Osama" stopped making the obviously fake videos and switched to audio tape?
So why make tapes attacking the US for things they would consider victories? for example claiming that Moussaoui was a wannabe and wasn't part of the plot, right after the US Courts sentenced him to life in prison. Remember that these tapes are aimed at the Arabic world, not the western world. Why be spending huge amounts of money trying to spin propaganda to those in the Muslim world, only to be undermining yourself with such claims, even putting your war effort and soldiers in danger because of it. Remember most 911 CT’s claim that the oil in Iraq and the gas in Afghanistan were the reasons for invasion. How is continuing to produce these tapes and stirring up the population into war and attacks on US forces helping to secure these things? Surely a peaceful Iraq and Afghanistan would be far more useful to such endeavours? Why would they be working towards the exact opposite of what they need to pull off their apparent goals? I've asked people living in the Middle East and Arabia, they are sure that these tapes are indeed OBL, as such why would the US be feeding them information more likely to make them hate the US? Especially when they are blatantly feeding them Pro-US stories as much as they can on US backed Arabic TV? Why release the latest tape trying to connect Al Queada directly to the London Bombings when those very same security people about the world are also saying it's not true and Al Queada's just trying to profit from the bombings? Even in the weirdest conspiracy filled world, this stuff makes no sense. Surely with Bush now at less than 30% in the polls, proof of OBL's death would boost his popularity greatly. Why not use it? They haven't hidden it when they have taken out or captured other high profile members, why him? I mean, even with OBL gone, Al Queada will still exist, it could even make it stronger as they try and revenge him. If you plan to claim that admitting he's gone would affect their "war on terror" it wouldn't, there is always a new head to cut from the Hydra, but getting a high profile one shows that they are winning. That's great PR for Bush and Blair, and they can still have their war, I mean, look at how fast Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was replaced in Iraq.
And finally, if any of the command structure of Al Queada is still alive, why aren’t they coming out and saying that these tapes are false? If you were part of a group and someone was claiming to be your past leader, would you shut up about it and let them just carry on doing it? Al Queada hasn’t been slow to call for retribution against the US and its allies for the death of it’s lieutenants in the past, why haven’t they made such about OBL’s death?
Your entire premise results in a farcical situation where the CIA or whoever is covertly undermining its own propaganda to the totally wrong people, and then turn around and refuse to take up a situation that would make them look good, all while making themselves look really bad, and the ones they are pretending to be just sit there quietly and say nothing at all about the double play, something that would really give them traction in both the East and the West.
Is this really the sort of madness you actually think happens?
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