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Post by Bill Thompson on Sept 27, 2006 14:56:09 GMT -4
My conclusion is that Osama bin Laden is what happens when inherited wealth meets stupidity. How is that for a theory?I don't think he's stupid. From everything I have heard he is highly intelligent. Very driven, a Zelot for Islam, and has a hatred of the US, but still highly intelligent. Do you know any Muslims? There are all sorts of intelligence. To be without any moral compass is the worst kind of stupidity. Now you might say that he is just following his religion but the same could be true for any killer. Have you read in the old testament how to rage war or how to stone people? A right wing caller was on this morning talk show asking the broadcaster if he had read the Koran and how intolerant it was. The broadcaster asked her if she had read the bible.
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Post by gillianren on Sept 27, 2006 15:41:59 GMT -4
[Do you know any Muslims? There are all sorts of intelligence. To be without any moral compass is the worst kind of stupidity. I'm not sure what the first comment here has to do with the second. I do, in fact, know Muslims, several of them, and they're people, just like anyone else--the Muslim with whom I went to high school is one of the most moral people I know, and there's one I know up here who isn't. People. You can't lump an entire religion together under one personality trait. And I disagree that stupidity and moral compass have anything to do with one another. There are serial killers, for example, who are very intelligent, but for reasons we don't yet fully understand, they don't get that laws in fact apply to them. Look at Ted Bundy, who could have been governor of Washington someday if it hadn't been for the whole crazy serial killer thing. Oh, and Osama bin Laden does have a moral compass. Sure, it points in a different direction--due kill-anyone-who-disagrees-with-you--but at least he follows through on his moral beliefs, which does put him ahead of a lot of other people. We have just made a value judgement that says he's wrong. I have, too, but I can acknowledge that, from his perspective, he is doing the will of Allah by killing infidels. It's just that I still believe that's wrong and he does not.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 27, 2006 16:52:29 GMT -4
To be without any moral compass is the worst kind of stupidity.
he is doing the will of Allah by killing infidels.
Actually he believes he's acting in self-defence of Islam and the Islamic nations. He sees those being killed by Israel and US and British foreign policy since thwe 1900's and is returning those deaths onto the West. From a certain perspective he is right. The Western world has been responisble for thousands, perhaps millions of muslim deaths through war and other foreign policy. Why do you think that many of the Middle Eastern people have such a hatred for the West?
I'm not condoning his actions, but they are totally understandable, unlike many psychotic killers.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Sept 30, 2006 15:22:40 GMT -4
To be without any moral compass is the worst kind of stupidity.he is doing the will of Allah by killing infidels. The muslims we see on TV are not the muslims I know in real life who think Osama is an idiot and harmful to islam and not doing the will of Allah.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 30, 2006 20:47:57 GMT -4
The muslims we see on TV are not the muslims I know in real life who think Osama is an idiot and harmful to islam and not doing the will of Allah.
Well than just as well neither of the quotes you attributed to me were my quotes, but me quoting the two posts directly above mine. (bold - yours, itallics - Gillanren's)
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Post by gillianren on Sept 30, 2006 22:45:46 GMT -4
The muslims we see on TV are not the muslims I know in real life who think Osama is an idiot and harmful to islam and not doing the will of Allah.Well than just as well neither of the quotes you attributed to me were my quotes, but me quoting the two posts directly above mine. (bold - yours, itallics - Gillanren's) And I never said he was right, just that it's what he believes, and that he's following through on his moral beliefs. (Though many, many people around the world believe he's in fact immoral.)
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Oct 2, 2006 11:57:20 GMT -4
I agree it's essentially incorrect to say that Osama Bin Laden has no moral compass. It's more correct to say his moral compass is pointing in the wrong direction.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 2, 2006 15:56:36 GMT -4
I agree it's essentially incorrect to say that Osama Bin Laden has no moral compass. It's more correct to say his moral compass is pointing in the wrong direction.
Ahhh, but there's the rub, by who's definition? After all the Isrealites were told by God to go in and cleanse the Promised Land, would you say that Jousha's moral compass was pointed in the wrong direction because he and his troops wiped out several cities?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Oct 2, 2006 17:35:24 GMT -4
No, because Joshua really was acting on God's behalf. Osama only thinks he is.
"And how do you know that?" is your next question.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 2, 2006 18:28:58 GMT -4
"And how do you know that?" is your next question.
Well he has as much evidence to his claims as you do to yours, so it's a good question.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Oct 2, 2006 18:33:32 GMT -4
Do you think Osama is acting in God's name? If not, why not? Do you think Joshua was acting in God's name? Or do you think Joshua = Osama?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Oct 2, 2006 18:40:24 GMT -4
I think anyone claiming to be acting in God's name had better have some better proof than "because I said so".
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 2, 2006 20:46:59 GMT -4
Do you think Osama is acting in God's name? Do you think Joshua was acting in God's name?
I believe that both acted on what they have taken to be messages of support from their respective deities. Whether I believe one, both or neither are correct is irrelevant, what they believe is the question. Do you think that OBL has less evidence for his "doing God's will" than you do when you do "God's will" for your church?
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Post by captain swoop on Oct 3, 2006 9:36:20 GMT -4
Do you think Osama is acting in God's name? If not, why not? Do you think Joshua was acting in God's name? Or do you think Joshua = Osama? I think they prob rhink they are doing gods will but we only have their word for it. Anyone claiming to hear voices has to be suspect.
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Post by gwiz on Oct 3, 2006 11:03:34 GMT -4
Do you think Osama is acting in God's name? If not, why not? Do you think Joshua was acting in God's name? Or do you think Joshua = Osama? I'm with Swoop on this one. Anyone claiming a direct line to God is deeply suspect.
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