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Post by 3onthetree on Apr 2, 2007 8:34:36 GMT -4
OK, what type of fire is required to melt steel? Regardless of 911. Because that's what Gillian's question was and perhaps she will believe you, I'm only a lowly CT.
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Post by Data Cable on Apr 2, 2007 9:12:08 GMT -4
OK, what type of fire is required to melt steel? The hot type, of course.
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Post by echnaton on Apr 2, 2007 9:35:22 GMT -4
I'm not at all surprised. Rosie O'Donnell is a grade A nutcase, a loudmouth moron, a hypocrite, and an attention whore. (pardon my french). Put all that together and you get a conspiracy theorist. Stop hedging and tell us what you really think.
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Post by nomuse on Apr 2, 2007 15:30:58 GMT -4
What steel melted? I've bent steel without melting it, plenty of times. Heat it enough and it is like playdough.
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Post by gillianren on Apr 2, 2007 16:45:17 GMT -4
And, for the record, Gillian is perfectly cognizant of the fact that the WTC steel neither melted nor had to. However, fire does, indeed, melt steel. This bizarre claim that it doesn't will come as quite a surprise to the bladesmiths of my acquaintance.
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Post by 3onthetree on Apr 2, 2007 17:11:42 GMT -4
And, for the record, Gillian is perfectly cognizant of the fact that the WTC steel neither melted nor had to. However, fire does, indeed, melt steel. This bizarre claim that it doesn't will come as quite a surprise to the bladesmiths of my acquaintance. Ask them if they use a controlled flame or an open air Kerosene fire. Ask them the difference.
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Post by 3onthetree on Apr 2, 2007 17:14:08 GMT -4
What steel melted? I've bent steel without melting it, plenty of times. Heat it enough and it is like playdough. Heat it with what? Did you use the plume of a controlled flame or an open air Kerosene fire?
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Post by gillianren on Apr 2, 2007 18:12:47 GMT -4
Ask them if they use a controlled flame or an open air Kerosene fire. Ask them the difference. They used a bed of coals, kind of like what you get in, oh, an office fire. (Well, okay--they used a different substance than charred office. The priniciple is still very much the same.)
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Post by nomuse on Apr 2, 2007 18:18:49 GMT -4
I'm lazy -- I use a torch.
But I know some of those SCAdian types who believe in blacksmithing the old-fashioned way. Charcoal is required to get to forging temperature, though...
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Post by gillianren on Apr 2, 2007 19:32:38 GMT -4
Actually, one event, we were across Merchants' Row from a blacksmith with a portable forge. It was a fascinating experience--then again, we had kind of a slow weekend because our customers kept drifting across to watch him.
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Post by nomuse on Apr 2, 2007 19:41:49 GMT -4
I should'a edited....you can bend metal well before it gets to that nice yellow-orange color the blacksmiths love. Just you get into trouble with work-hardening and all that. Most of the metal I've bent has been barely glowing. Actually, for that simple wrought-iron stuff you can start pulling it around the jig right about the moment that "clean" look appears (which I assume is the surface oxidation burning off).
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Post by PhantomWolf on Apr 2, 2007 21:50:22 GMT -4
Heat it with what? Did you use the plume of a controlled flame or an open air Kerosene fire?
Well the fire that is thought to have weakened the steel in the WTC wasn't a kerosene fire. Kerosene was the accelerant that started the fire, but the fuel for the fire was the smashed up office supplies and furiture along with the consumables from the plane itself.
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Post by 3onthetree on Apr 3, 2007 8:13:59 GMT -4
I'm not at all surprised. Rosie O'Donnell is a grade A nutcase, a loudmouth moron, a hypocrite, and an attention whore. (pardon my french). Put all that together and you get a conspiracy theorist. She sounds like an American patriot to me. Your constitution is being destroyed by a corrupt regime with 911 as the catalyst, that's worth investigating surely. From Rosie's blog. When were you ever so right about something that you felt you had the eternal right to ridicule the opinion of others.?
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Post by 3onthetree on Apr 3, 2007 8:47:26 GMT -4
Heat it with what? Did you use the plume of a controlled flame or an open air Kerosene fire?Well the fire that is thought to have weakened the steel in the WTC wasn't a kerosene fire. Kerosene was the accelerant that started the fire, but the fuel for the fire was the smashed up office supplies and furiture along with the consumables from the plane itself. And so for the first time in history a global collapse, not once but three times on the one day from office fires. A partial pancake collapse of fire damaged floors in high rise fires could almost be expected after a long burn, it rarely happens. Firefighters know that to fight an open plan office building fire is almost hopeless and therefore use a controlled burn procedure to allow the combustibles to burn out and allow occupants to escape by fighting the fire from a defensive position. So in effect firefighters try and restrict the fire to affected floors and let them burn out. They used this method because steel framed skyscrapers did not collapse without warning before 911.
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Post by Ranb on Apr 3, 2007 9:19:20 GMT -4
When were you ever so right about something that you felt you had the eternal right to ridicule the opinion of others.? I think now is one of those times. One of the nice things about living in the USA is that anyone here can criticize or ridicule anyone from the president on down to a nutball like Rosie. Her opinions are based more on hating the USA, than any investigating she has done. She hates the USA so much that she sh-ts on the victims of 911 just to make her point about how evil the USA is. If America was as bad as she says, then she would be locked up in prison simply for speaking her mind like she does. Ranb
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