The Ten Protocols of Zion

[lionking]

I ahve read them long time ago. I heard people here, maybe echnaton, saying that they were proven wrong. Can anybody explain this better. Thanks

[Ginnie]

Its a complete fabrication.
Don't believe any of it!

This is one document that should be erased from history. It has been used as ammunition against the Jews for about a hundred years by various individuals and groups who most likely know its real origins but refer to it or promote it anyway.

[gillianren]

The Protocols of Zion is an infamous hoax. Wherever there is anti-Semitism, however, there will be some idiot claiming they're real, even though the debunkings are almost as old as the document itself. Hitler and Henry Ford, for example, were both convinced of their authenticity, and when Henry Ford was shown the evidence of the forgery, he said that it didn't matter if it wasn't real; it was still true.

However, thirty seconds' research will show that it was a forgery for the express purpose of discrediting Jews. Wikipedia, for example, has a pretty good page about it.

For a start, there are direct, word-for-word plagiarisms from a work called Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, written in 1864 by Maurice Joly. Neither it nor the previous work, The Mysteries of the People, by Eugene Sue, upon which it was apparently based, mentions Jews at all.

The first English-language publication of it was in 1920; it was exposed as a forgery and a hoax in 1921. In 1935, there was a legal judgement in a Bern, Switzerland court that they were a forgery; the judge said that he believed there would come a time when people would not be able to believe that anyone had taken the Protocols seriously. Apparently, that time is not yet.

[Nowhere Man]

You call it "The Ten Protocols of Zion." Is this different from "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," of which there are 24?* Sounds like someone's done some editing.

Whatever, it's all a hoax, propaganda, and plagiarism. Here is the Wikipedia article, and one from a more-trusted source.

What do you think?

Fred

*Edit to add: Correction, 25.

[Jason]

They're as fake as the Hitler Diaries. It's just that more people seem to still find them useful for stirring anti-semitism.

[echnaton]

It was made as propaganda and is used as that today. Any time Arab TV stations show productions of the "Protocols", they are engaging in hate mongering propaganda.

[lionking]

thnx guys. I read them long time ago and they scared the hell out of me. It is good to know they are not true.

These came to my mind when someone on TV (pro-Syrian) mentioned something about an American Zionist -responsible in politics I think- saying that this person said: if you want to get rid of your enemy, kill your friend that is his enemy and watch how thw world will judge and get your enemy to trial.
I don't know if that was truly said .they were referring that Israel killed Hariri to make the world judge Syria on that. If anyone knows of such a politician (who m I regret that Ididn't take his name to search on the internet about him), but if you happen to know about him, plz say this.

[vonmazur]

According to most historians, Maurice Joly was plagarized by a Russian Monk names Nilius, who was a student of, another monk who was at the time famous, Soloviev. I think they were actually talking about the Priory of Sion, not the Zionist movement, but this is just my feeling on this. I believe that the Hister Channel covered most of this recently...

Dale

[PhantomWolf]

Except that the Priory of Sion was a hoax created in 1956 by a guy named Pierre Plantard.

[Ginnie]

phantomwolf said:

Except that the Priory of Sion was a hoax created in 1956 by a guy named Pierre Plantard.

Just to cut in here, just in case someone believes the Da Vinci Code book too - most of it is stitched up pieces of history that have little in common with each other - and also really bad interpretations of historical events - you know the what if, may have, could be, kind of writing. Sort of like a Eric Van Daniken 'Chariots of the Bloodline' type.

I particularly was aghast when Dan Brown wrote that there are references to Jesus Christ in the Dead Sea Scrolls!

[PhantomWolf]

ginniegatrit said:

phantomwolf said:

Except that the Priory of Sion was a hoax created in 1956 by a guy named Pierre Plantard.

Just to cut in here, just in case someone believes the Da Vinci Code book too - most of it is stitched up pieces of history that have little in common with each other - and also really bad interpretations of historical events - you know the what if, may have, could be, kind of writing. Sort of like a Eric Van Daniken 'Chariots of the Bloodline' type.

I particularly was aghast when Dan Brown wrote that there are references to Jesus Christ in the Dead Sea Scrolls!

Well Brown used The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln as a basis for much of his work, somuch that the authors sued for copyright infringment. Funnily enough the Judge found that if they had been willing to accept that their work was fiction they'd have had a case, but since they declared it was fact Brown could happily rip it off as much as he liked as a reference. The post by vonmazur actually sounds like it has been taken from either the Baigent book or one of several shows that were based on it, or for it was the basis. They used the Protocols and relabelled them to the Priory of Scion in their book. They also reference fraudulent info about the dead sea scrolls. Shows how wonderful their research was, they managed to write a book (actually three I believe) based on not just one hoax, not even two hoaxes, but three.

[Jason]

Other scholars than these guys have attempted to identify christian writings in the Dead Sea Scrolls. One fragment in particular almost matches a passage from Mark, but it's really too small to be certain.

[AstroSmurf]

phantomwolf said:

Funnily enough the Judge found that if they had been willing to accept that their work was fiction they'd have had a case, but since they declared it was fact Brown could happily rip it off as much as he liked as a reference.

I don't know about you, but I find that hilarious! ;D

[fireballxl5]

phantomwolf said:

Except that the Priory of Sion was a hoax created in 1956 by a guy named Pierre Plantard.

This is not correct the priory of sion existed way before Pierre Plantard took the story and ran with it. The original priory of Sion had nothing to do with the grail and all that rubbish but it most definitely existed before Plantsrd and died out before him also.

[fireballxl5]

phantomwolf said:

ginniegatrit said:

Just to cut in here, just in case someone believes the Da Vinci Code book too - most of it is stitched up pieces of history that have little in common with each other - and also really bad interpretations of historical events - you know the what if, may have, could be, kind of writing. Sort of like a Eric Van Daniken 'Chariots of the Bloodline' type.

I particularly was aghast when Dan Brown wrote that there are references to Jesus Christ in the Dead Sea Scrolls!

Well Brown used The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln as a basis for much of his work, somuch that the authors sued for copyright infringment. Funnily enough the Judge found that if they had been willing to accept that their work was fiction they'd have had a case, but since they declared it was fact Brown could happily rip it off as much as he liked as a reference. The post by vonmazur actually sounds like it has been taken from either the Baigent book or one of several shows that were based on it, or for it was the basis. They used the Protocols and relabelled them to the Priory of Scion in their book. They also reference fraudulent info about the dead sea scrolls. Shows how wonderful their research was, they managed to write a book (actually three I believe) based on not just one hoax, not even two hoaxes, but three.

Now this is strange also because Richard Leigh in a history Chanel program admits Holy blood holy grail is a work of fiction. The program is called the real Da Vinci Code.