Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 14:07:45 GMT -4
Also, Intelligent Design by itself is not going to lead anyone to the Bible or into Christianity. Maybe, maybe not... but it's certainly going to lead some people away from science. They might not make the connection with ID's Bible origins, but if they believe it they are believing in something that is little more than magic. Actually I it could have the opposite effect. This board is an excellent example of how people learn more about science and a historical event through questioning it. Even the most zealous preachers of Intelligent Design have to learn more about real science than they knew before in order to defend it.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 14:09:37 GMT -4
Do Intelligent Design courses include all the information that punch holes in it? Is it a critical thinking exercise, or is it promoting a belief? I don't know - I've never taken one. Have you?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 15, 2008 14:10:49 GMT -4
No, I haven't, because so far my school system has been smart enough to ignore Intelligent Design.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 15, 2008 14:11:33 GMT -4
One does not have to take an intelligent design course to know that it is crap, no matter what the additional content.
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 14:20:16 GMT -4
You can't know it's crap without looking at it first. If students aren't taught anything about it then they don't know either way.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 15, 2008 15:08:06 GMT -4
Intelligent design is a crap theory, therefore a class promoting it is also crap. No amount of bluster will change that.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 15:46:04 GMT -4
Which is more effective, telling people "this is crap" over and over again, and refusing to discuss a subject at all; or teaching something and then showing why it doesn't work?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 15, 2008 15:56:54 GMT -4
I really don't think the people pushing to have ID taught in schools are doing it to teach critical thinking skills. If they possessed any critical thinking skills they wouldn't be promoting ID.
ID proponents talk about the holes in the theory of evolution, but they ignore one major flaw in their theory: if life can't evolve naturally, if it needs a creator... then who created the creator? If that isn't enough to convince school boards that ID is garbage then what does it take?
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Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
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Post by Al Johnston on Jan 15, 2008 16:06:47 GMT -4
It's tourists buying the books, not us. On the occasions when I have visited US National Parks, a majority of my fellow visitors were US citizens.
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 16:17:09 GMT -4
Yes Intelligent Design by itself has problems. No it shouldn't be taught as a reasonable scientific alternative to evolution. No, most advocates of Intelligent Design may not have critical thinking as their highest goal.
But how do you teach critical thinking except to teach something and then pick it apart?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 16:19:27 GMT -4
It's tourists buying the books, not us. On the occasions when I have visited US National Parks, a majority of my fellow visitors were US citizens. Meaning the books were paid for by something other than tax dollars.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 15, 2008 16:31:52 GMT -4
Yes Intelilgent Design by itself has problems. Yes, its major problem is that it is not based on valid science. No it shouldn't be taught as a reasonable scientific alternative to evolution. No, most advocates of Intelligent Design may not have critical thinking as their highest goal. But how do you teach critical thinking except to teach something and then pick it apart? People who promote intelligent design do not promote the picking apart of intelligent design. Promoters of intelligent design instead do their best to pick apart evolution and cast doubt on what science has learned about nature. Intelligent design is anti-science, as are its promoters, as are those in the government who allow government programs to give the promoters of ID/creationism validity that they do not deserve.
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 16:38:03 GMT -4
Doubt is an essential part of science. Thinking that we already know everything, and that there are no holes in our understanding, is not science.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 15, 2008 16:40:19 GMT -4
Reading an old book and then making up a "scientific theory" that fits the myths of the book is not science in any way, shape or form. Science is not about saying, "look, I can't figure this out. God must have done it."
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 16:46:46 GMT -4
Reading an old book and then making up a "scientific theory" that fits the myths of the book is not science in any way, shape or form. Science is not about saying, "look, I can't figure this out. God must have done it." Most Intelligent Design proponents are obviously motivated by their faith in the Bible, but Intelligent Design itself doesn't attempt to match the Bible - it is merely an attack on evolution.
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