Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 11, 2008 18:19:38 GMT -4
I think I understand why Jason is having a hard time seeing your point. I see his point. I'm just arguing that he overstated it. Exactly. It's impossible to say "we know there is no other intelligent species in this universe because if there were we know they would be here right now." It's not possible to prove that there are no other intelligent species in the universe without having visited every inch of the universe ourselves, and even then we might have missed them. The existence of alien intelligence can only be proven if we find it. We can't disprove it. Essentially correct. If wdmundt were saying "I haven't ever encountered what I would consider convincing evidence that God exists," I would have no argument. What he has been saying, however, is "there is no evidence that God exists," which he can't possibly know or ever confirm.
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Post by wdmundt on Mar 11, 2008 18:21:23 GMT -4
See response #59.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 11, 2008 18:32:56 GMT -4
Well... unknown evidence is not evidence in the realm of human knowledge. If it is not known then it can't be called evidence. Some thing we don't know about could exist and it could have properties, but those properties are not evidence in the realm of human knowledge until we know of them. If you're claiming that there is no evidence of the existence of God in the realm of human knowledge, wouldn't you have to know all human knowledge in order to verify this fact? Trying to prove the non-existance of God is a fool's errand because it can't be done, yet you keep trying to claim that you know there is no evidence, even if you've now backed away a bit from your claim that you can actually show us there is no evidence. How exactly do you know that "there is no evidence" is a "fact"?
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Post by wdmundt on Mar 11, 2008 18:55:54 GMT -4
Well... unknown evidence is not evidence in the realm of human knowledge. If it is not known then it can't be called evidence. Some thing we don't know about could exist and it could have properties, but those properties are not evidence in the realm of human knowledge until we know of them. If you're claiming that there is no evidence of the existence of God in the realm of human knowledge, wouldn't you have to know all human knowledge in order to verify this fact? Trying to prove the non-existance of God is a fool's errand because it can't be done, yet you keep trying to claim that you know there is no evidence, even if you've now backed away a bit from your claim that you can actually show us there is no evidence. No, Jason -- I've backed away from your claim that I claimed that. Saying there is no evidence for God is a completely different argument than claiming evidence that there is no God. I wish you could see the distinction. I will keep trying.
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Post by Ginnie on Mar 11, 2008 19:15:14 GMT -4
I declare this a tie.
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Post by altair4 on Mar 11, 2008 19:38:41 GMT -4
Jason, I have not intentionally tried to put you in a difficult spot argueing your point and having to defend yourself
I would love to see a debate between athiest and Sherley Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church.. I saw a doco recently on TV about this lot and I was disgusted!
I am just sitting back laughing knowing that God does exist,is within the soul...like I say I am not a christian,I goto the yoga centre
all I did was start a thread about the supreme court in Israel with that triangle with the eye which I don't like
Jason stick to your guns!!!
I stick to my experience.,the scientific method is crap,I studied psychology at university.what a load of sh*t.They can't even agree upon themselves about human nature.Psychology isn't real...and it's a "science"
I am trying to be nice Jason have you had spiritual experiences that you might want to share?or maybe you wan't to keep things to yourself..take care, god bless you
OBTW Jason you don't have to prove anything,just be yourself, I like as you are
altair4
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Post by Ginnie on Mar 11, 2008 20:16:36 GMT -4
Jason, I have not intentionally tried to put you in a difficult spot argueing your point and having to defend yourselfHa ha. Jason relishes difficult spots. Like a cat backed into a corner - watch out for those claws!
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 11, 2008 20:39:43 GMT -4
Saying there is no evidence for God is a completely different argument than claiming evidence that there is no God. I wish you could see the distinction. I will keep trying. You are arguing that there is no evidence for the existence of God, correct? How have you verified that there isn't any?
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 11, 2008 20:46:36 GMT -4
Jason, I have not intentionally tried to put you in a difficult spot argueing your point and having to defend yourself No apology neccessary. I jumped in with both feet. Please stop saying that. The scientific method is a very useful tool that has served the human race well. The fact that it can't be applied in all situations doesn't make it crap, anymore than the fact that a hammer can't fix everything means that "hammers are crap." I hesitate to speak too much about what I consider sacred experiences in a situation where they are not likely to be taken seriously. Suffice it to say that yes I have had personal spiritual experiences that have served to confirm the existence of God to me.
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Post by wdmundt on Mar 11, 2008 21:00:51 GMT -4
Saying there is no evidence for God is a completely different argument than claiming evidence that there is no God. I wish you could see the distinction. I will keep trying. You are arguing that there is no evidence for the existence of God, correct? How have you verified that there isn't any? Through lifelong study, yes. If you would like to prove me wrong, please do so. Why are you so reluctant to engage the question of whether or not there is evidence for the existence of God? Why do you keep dancing away from the argument? You didn't answer this before -- I'm I right in claiming to know that unicorns don't exist?
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Post by altair4 on Mar 11, 2008 21:05:55 GMT -4
Jason,God does exist and can prove to YOU from within..its a "small inner voice" (WITHOUT CONSCIOUS EFFORT,you may have experiences that are scientifically impossible, these guys will never understand it comes with DIRECT EXPERIENCE if you and god are "ONE" thats another level...coincidences no longer becomes coincidences..there is synchronicity...wait to ya start having OBES (great) and ESP(maybe)..the sceptics and athiest are wrong(TRUTH)
hang in there!!fight of those debunkers
Paul
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 11, 2008 21:27:20 GMT -4
You are arguing that there is no evidence for the existence of God, correct? How have you verified that there isn't any? Through lifelong study, yes. In other words, "I haven't found any (yet)." You can't know that the evidence that will convince you isn't still out there, just waiting for you to find it. Whether or not I am able to supply you with convincing evidence that God exists has no bearing on whether such evidence actually exists. And judging from your posts on this forum you would be unwilling to accept any evidence. If I could arrange to have an angel visit you in person it's unlikely that you would accept even that as evidence. In fact I'm curious. If a real angel appeared to (only) you and said "God does exist." Would you believe it? Or would you say "Seeing an angel doesn't prove anything. I'll believe in Him when I meet Him." No, you are not correct. You can't know that unicorns don't exist. Again, it's impossible to prove a negative. You may say "I've never seen one, and given how many other people have looked and report failing to find any I think it's very likely they don't exist," but you can't know it.
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Post by Data Cable on Mar 12, 2008 1:15:49 GMT -4
Uhuh! If it's invisible, how do you know it's pink? Faith.
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Post by Data Cable on Mar 12, 2008 1:25:56 GMT -4
I am just sitting back laughing knowing that God does exist,is within the soul...like I say I am not a christian,I goto the yoga centre Your invisible pink unicorn is laughing too... while watching you do yoga. Please clarify, what is wrong with the scientific method? Please clarify, why isn't psychology real? External voices, as previously established, are invisible pink unicorns. Actual internal voices, however, are schizophrenia. Have you had experiences which are "scientifically impossible?" You may not have noticed, but Jason is a debunker.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Mar 12, 2008 5:53:24 GMT -4
Uhuh! If it's invisible, how do you know it's pink? Faith. Well that's very scientific.
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