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Post by BertL on Jul 14, 2007 19:25:50 GMT -4
I bet you're "xarzu", Bill.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Jul 16, 2007 5:41:49 GMT -4
I bet you're "xarzu", Bill. Yes, and the post was deleted because it was supposedly “intolerant of religion”. I cannot think why anyone – including people who believe in Scientology – could possibly consider it as being a religion. Even the Scientologists say it is an alternative to psychology. (and then sometimes they say it is a business and then they change... it is hard to pin down a shape shifter) Dianetics was written as a self-help book. Hubbard’s son said in an interview that his dad had basically thrown a lot of other ideas and theories about psychology together and out came Dianetics. Scientology was made because the government and the psychological community had become alarmed that Hubbard’s Dianetics auditing sessions had been causing a lot more harm than good by people with legitimate disorders who had gone to his Dianetics sessions. The government was going to shut down Dianetics and Hubbard retooled Dianetics into Scientology in order to protect it. If it was a religion, the government could not touch it.
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Post by echnaton on Jul 16, 2007 9:08:07 GMT -4
The government was going to shut down Dianetics and Hubbard retooled Dianetics into Scientology in order to protect it. If it was a religion, the government could not touch it.
And it was tax exempt.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 16, 2007 10:58:26 GMT -4
Yes, and the post was deleted because it was supposedly “intolerant of religion”. I cannot think why anyone – including people who believe in Scientology – could possibly consider it as being a religion. That statement is itself religiously intolerant. If a group says that they are a religion you need to give them the benefit of the doubt. You can argue if they're a good religion or not, or if they're helpful or not, or even if you think the government should be granting them tax-exempt status or not, but telling someone what they really believe or don't believe is not your perrogative.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Jul 16, 2007 15:41:06 GMT -4
Yes, and the post was deleted because it was supposedly “intolerant of religion”. I cannot think why anyone – including people who believe in Scientology – could possibly consider it as being a religion. That statement is itself religiously intolerant. Yes, I thought of the same thing. Intolerant of free speech.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Jul 18, 2007 19:27:34 GMT -4
"Yes, Diskeeper, I would like to hear you sing 'Daisy'""Psychiatry and Scientology" by L. J. West, M.D. originally printed in "The Southern California Psychiatrist," July 1990, pp. 13-16. Dr. West has granted permission to upload this article to computer networks and bulletin boards-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Church of Scientology began as a pseudo-scientific healing cult, Dianetics, described by L. Ron Hubbard, a science fiction writer, in his best-selling book "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health" (1950). At first, Dianetics attracted followers by promising to cure psychiatric and psychosomatic disorders through a procedure called "dianetic auditing," based on pop-psychology, hypnosis, and cybernetics. Hubbard's theory was based on the principle that people can achieve health through abolishing ("clearing") negative influences ("engrams") from their minds by going back (often to the womb) on a "time track" while in a dianetic reverie" in the presence of a listening "auditor." The subject is hooked up to a simple psychogalvanometer, called an "E-meter," which displays galvanic skin responses (GSRs) to questions posed by the auditor. Emotionally charged items are then addressed.
In it early years Dianetics was faced by legal problems related to statutes governing the practice of medicine and other health professions. However, in 1954 Hubbard and his attorneys legally transformed the non-professional psychotherapy of Dianetics into a religious enterprise called the Church of Scientology. Under the privileged status as a religion, there was no stopping the extraordinary expansion of Scientology. Despite a series of scandals and lawsuits, the bizarre little mental healing cult grew into a multi-million dollar, international enterprise, openly peddling its private brand of psychotherapy under the aegis of a religion -- thus remaining immune from malpractice lawsuits (although not from suits for damages or fraud), statutes governing the healing arts, and health professional committees on ethics.
Dianetics auditing offers a series of therapeutic "courses" (with payment by contract in advance) on a path from "pre-release" to "release" to "pre-clear" to the rare but ultimate "clear" (of all engrams) to reach "total freedom." Each treatment course is really a succession of auditing sessions to rid the individual of unwanted attitudes, emotions and behaviors. Auditors themselves receive training through courses of their own. This works as a sort of pyramid scheme, with thousands of people auditing those at levels below them while being audited by others at levels above them. As in all pyramid schemes, most of the money ends up at the top.
The final challenge for the "clear" Scientologist is to become an "Operating Thetan." Here again there are several further steps for advanced Scientologist to gain greater comprehension of Hubbard's "religious" teachings (grafted on to the original Dianetics) about how aberrant behavior was implanted in humans 75 million years ago by an evil ruler named Xenu from another galaxy. Xenu froze humans and dropped them into volcanoes. After killing humans with hydrogen bombs to comabe overpopulation, Xenu collected their spirits as they rose from the volcanoes and implanted the spirits with evil thoughs. Since then, lusters of these evil spirits ("body Thetans") have attached themselves to humans as they are reincarnated though eons of time, and are responsible for all aberrant behaviors.
Enlightenment isn't cheap. Depending on ability to pay (or willingness to mortgage one's future) individuals can spend from initially small amounts up to $1000 per hour of auditing which is purchased in twelve half-hour blocks called "intensives." It can cost $50,000 to $100,000 or more to complete -- if ever -- the numerous courses. There are also hundreds of optional courses based on Hubbard's teachings which can range in price up to $16,500. A growing number of members now have families within the organization. Their children attend private schools run by Scientologists. Staff members are subject to a detailed code of behavior, with progressive punishments for errors, misdemeanors, crimes, and high crimes.
Scientology portrays itself as a victim of persecution by a conspiracy involving the media, the U.S. government, various medical organizations (including the World Federation of Mental Health and the National Association of Mental Health in Great Britain), and a number of individuals including government officials, some traditional clergy, certain physicians and others who have openly criticized their practices. It has filed hundreds of lawsuits over the years, taking on the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, Internal Revenue Service, and endlessly harassing a number of individual critics. On August 15, 1978 a Federal grand jury in Washington, DC indicted 11 top leaders of the Church of Scientology for conducting a wide range of illegal activities including the infiltration, bugging and burglary of the Justice Department, the IRS, and other federal agencies. Scientology also conducts sophisticated intelligence and propaganda operations against private organizations and individual critics who are classified as enemies or "suppressive persons." A special branch created by Hubbard in 1966 performs "dirty tricks," such as calling in anonymous death threats, smearing individual enemies, sending out phoney compromising letters on the "suppressive person's" letterhead, making anonymous phone calls to the IRS accusing enemies of cheating on their taxes, etc. "Dirty tricks," like more formal public relations campaigns and spurious lawsuits, seem primarily intended by Scientology to destroy the individual enemy's reputation, to harass, discourage and intimidate. All this is justified by Hubbard's policy declaring "suppressive persons" to be "fair game."
The Citizen's Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), one of Scientology's front organizations, is frequently behind both personal and professional attacks against members of the medical profession, especially of the American Psychiatric Association (APA). The CCHR was established in 1969 to investigate and publicize psychiatric "violations of human rights." These "violations" include the profession's use of electroconvulsive therapy, the use of methylphenidate (Ritalin) for children with attention deficit disorder and indeed any use of medication by psychiatrists from Phenothiazemes to Prozac. In fact, they literally declared war on Newsweek for running a cover story on Prozac in a recent issue. For some years the Scientologists organized by the CCHR have staged demonstrations at the time and place of the annual APA meeting. Sometimes airplanes fly overhead pulling banners proclaiming, "PSYCHIATRY KILLS." These protests often attract significant media coverage. Meanwhile, individual critics may be picketed, defamed, abused and harassed in various ways without respite for years.
Another Scientology front group is Narconon, a nationwide enterprise that claims to rehabilitate drug addicts using withdrawal, diet supplements, exercise, sauna sessions and, inevitably, dianetic auditing. They claim an 86% cure rate. So cunning has been their sales pitch that Narconon has attracted considerable extramural support. Two school systems in Idaho hire Narconon agents to instruct their schoolchildren about drugs. In Michigan the Department of Corrections contracted with Narconon to rehabilitate its prisoners. Currently in Newkirk, Oklahoma, Narconon is attempting to obtain a permanent license for a treatment facility at the nearby Chilocco Indian School. Last year in Spain, authorities charged Narconon with swindling clients and luring them into Scientology. Seventy-one people were arrested, including Scientology president Heber Jentzsch; hundreds of documents were seized; and a Spanish judge froze bank accounts holding $900,000. (The suspects were released after a brief jail stay while the investigation continued.)
The medical profession as a whole, and psychiatry in particular, has generally failed to fight back or even take notice of Scientology, its slanders and other depredations. In the medical literature there are only a handful of references to Scientology. It is clear that the legitimate healing professions have not come to grips with the dangers posed by cults in general, and with the peculiarly hostile and antipsychiatric "church" of Scientology in particular.
Most people know surprisingly little about Scientology. Only a handful of books and articles, and a few journalistic pieces in the popular press, have been written about Hubbard and his organizations. In May 1980 and September 1981, the Reader's Digest published two articles about Scientology and its dangers. Recent informative books on Hubbard are: "L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman" by Bent Corydon and L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., and "Barefaced Messiah" by Russell Miller. An excellent six-part series about Scientology in the Los Angeles Times began in the edition of June 24, 1990.
Unfortunately, the harms done by Scientology go far beyond attacks on psychiatry or on critics. It is Scientology's membership, and their families, who are the most likely to suffer. Many damaged personas are emerging from the cult, often with symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder including prominent dissociative features. Some of these refugees seek help from psychiatrists. We owe it to them, and to ourselves, to continue investigating the nature of harms done by cults such as the Church of Scientology and to publish our findings regardless of the consequences.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 19, 2007 13:33:46 GMT -4
"Post Traumatic Stress Disorder"? I think Dr. West may be overstating his case.
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Post by nomuse on Jul 19, 2007 15:33:23 GMT -4
So....do we need to be respectful of modern Jedi, too?
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 19, 2007 15:46:21 GMT -4
If someone came up to me and said his belief in the Force had drastically improved his life I wouldn't laugh in his face.
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jul 19, 2007 15:49:24 GMT -4
I know a guy who said that watching Babylon 5 had turned his life around and was like a religious experience to him. And I've met people who take Star Trek worship a little further than I would regard as strictly healthy, despite being a Trekker myself.
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Post by Ginnie on Jul 19, 2007 16:43:10 GMT -4
You should start a poll and find out how many of us are Trekkers.
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Post by Bill Thompson on Jul 19, 2007 17:50:26 GMT -4
If someone came up to me and said his belief in the Force had drastically improved his life I wouldn't laugh in his face. I would like to invite everyone to view John (or Jon) Beebe's interview on youtube before considering Scientology as being harmless. You should also visit xenu.net and www.whyaretheydead.net/ There is also a good program (programme) on youtube from a show called "hidden lives" on youtube about Hubbard. Any interview with De Wolf (Hubbard's son who legally changed his last name) is very good. Scientology might make people happy, but so does heroine. I do not think the analogy with Star Trek fits because I do not think people actually are expected to believe in it. They also do not claim that psychiatry is a lie and wage war with detractors by using the legal system as a weapon.
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jul 19, 2007 17:52:11 GMT -4
There are people who think Star Trek is atheistic and promotes a communist, anti-capitalist viewpoint. But I was referring more to the comment about respecting a person who's religion is "Jedi" rather than directly comparing Star Trek fandom to a cult.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 19, 2007 17:52:27 GMT -4
You should start a poll and find out how many of us are Trekkers. Good idea. I started one in the "General Discussion" area. Apparently you can't use the italics tag in a poll question. Oh well.
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Post by ishmael on Jul 19, 2007 18:37:35 GMT -4
There are people who think Star Trek is atheistic and promotes a communist, anti-capitalist viewpoint. I guess if I ever watched it I might know this. But, it is a television show, so I would assume it would promote some viewpoint that is completely idiotic. But I was referring more to the comment about respecting a person who's religion is "Jedi" rather than directly comparing Star Trek fandom to a cult. Now even I know that "Jedi" is from "Star Wars" and not "Star Trek."
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