raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Jun 19, 2008 2:07:32 GMT -4
DUDE!
Pardon my language, just , wow, it is a real honour sir, a real honour. Without the work you people did, Apollo wouldn't have been possible. Sending this small missive out into that void we all the Internet is almost as much an honour as if I got to shake Neil Armstrong's hand. You make me proud to be a human being, sir. I do not think I have ever communicated with someone who worked on the Apollo program before, at least no knowingly. You just made my month, I can't even begin to describe how this makes me feel with this rough magic we call words. All I can say is, thank you. Ever since I learned to read, I have devoured everything I could about space, mostly books. Apollo was mankind's greatest reach to the Beyond, and helped the world know. Thank you.
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Post by tedward on Jun 19, 2008 3:44:09 GMT -4
This particular aspect has fascinated me since I picked up on the hoax theory. That is why it is not considered or even thought out. The whole idea of getting the signals around let alone logistics of the set and acting, thinking along the lines of what if it was a hoax and how etc. Don't worry, very convinced it was real. One site I have seen does have pictures of a supposedly viable microwave link but there are hole in that that site's theory as it is presented.
Slightly off topic but the more you delve into "how to" the bigger the plot is required. Teaching granny to suck eggs here I know. Even to how many generators required for backup and main power including spares and fuel tanks, plus a few other bits and bobs.
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Post by miked on Jun 19, 2008 5:49:19 GMT -4
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Post by ineluki on Jun 19, 2008 7:54:12 GMT -4
Mr Dinn was, in almost every way imaginable, there when it happened. Which makes him a conspirator to the HBs...
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Post by ineluki on Jun 19, 2008 7:55:23 GMT -4
Thanks for the copy of your article. Most hoax-believers are very ignorant about Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, photography, TV, radio, spacecraft, navigation, Apollo computers, etc. Add "logic" and "reality" to the list...
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jun 19, 2008 10:16:57 GMT -4
Thanks for the welcome. A little overwhelming! I guess that you walking into this pack of mad Apolloites would be a little like Hugh Jackman wandering into a comic book convention. I unfortunately was only just there for 17, and even then a little young to remember it (6 months) I note in your OP you talked about the doopler shifts as the craft travelled back and forth. I have seen others describe this as helpful in tracking. What I was wondering is, did you guys have the ability to track the LM as it was landing by way of their radio signals, dopler changes or otherwise?
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Post by JayUtah on Jun 19, 2008 12:39:58 GMT -4
Thanks for the welcome. A little overwhelming!
It wasn't meant to overwhelm. But it's hard to imagine someone in the Apollo hoax debunker circle who hasn't at least heard of you. Thanks for all your efforts to provide the inside story.
I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.
And I'm getting closer to such luckiness for the second time around. I've got people at Rockwell Collins asking "who this Jay guy is," so hopefully I'll get to settle my engineering team there. R-C is making parts of the instrumentation for Orion. We'll see.
If anybody has specific questions within my areas of expertise please ask
Heck, if you go down to the more general forums you can find lots of discussion far outside our expertise.
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Post by Ginnie on Jun 19, 2008 14:49:59 GMT -4
You know, mked's first post is an excellent example of evidence supporting the reality of the Apollo missions. For HB , before they go off on their seems like/isn't it odd rants and debates over nonsensical imaginary youtube blurry pixel evidence, they should perhaps explain why miked's information would be bogus or not accurate. Any explain why anybody would risk their reputation if that information was incorrect.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jun 20, 2008 3:04:49 GMT -4
Heck, if you go down to the more general forums you can find lots of discussion far outside our expertise.You mean there really ARE things outside your expertise Jay?
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Post by miked on Jun 20, 2008 7:09:05 GMT -4
I note in your OP you talked about the doopler shifts as the craft travelled back and forth. I have seen others describe this as helpful in tracking. What I was wondering is, did you guys have the ability to track the LM as it was landing by way of their radio signals, dopler changes or otherwise? Doppler was/is the most important tracking data. The LM was certainly tracked on landing, although we at Honeysuckle did not actually see a landing. The doppler shift can be measured with great precision, because of phase locked loops maintaing accurate coherence, combined with very high quality frequency and time standards. If you want to follow this up, go look at page 61 of NASA SP-87 , first link on history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-TVDocs.html. This document should keep anybody interested in Apollo communications occupied for many hours. I wonder what HBers think about all the trouble NASA went to to pretend they were implementing a state of the art space communications world network Mike Dinn -- Canberra
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Post by Kiwi on Jun 20, 2008 7:37:17 GMT -4
"The Apollo 11 astronauts have coined a new word in space terminology: "Honeybilla."" Never heard this one before. As far as Manned Flight and Apollo were concerned there was only one "station" -- "Honeysuckle" HSK... The astronauts had absolutely no need to be aware of Tidbinbilla, and certainly no need to ever refer to it. So the story as written makes no sense at all. Thanks, Mike. I had an idea that Tidbinbilla wouldn't have had direct contact with Apollo 11 but wasn't sure. So, clearly we have a fake involving Apollo on our hands. Woo hoo! Not exactly the type that HBs believe in but interesting all the same. Any thought on how the story would have originated, Mike? Did you have a hard-case colleague or two who might have taken a reporter aside and, with a straight face, spun him a bit of a yarn, as Aussies have sometimes been known to do? Any Canberraites here who can check local newpapers of the time? The article says it originated there. Could the reporter's name be mentioned and known? The following article was in the same paper and on the same page. It gives some indication that NASA always had good backup systems in place: [By the way, I have 100 of these articles from The West Australian about Apollo 11. Anyone's welcome to a copy if interested. -- do me a personal message with an email adress if so.] I wonder what HBers think about all the trouble NASA went to to pretend they were implementing a state of the art space communications world network -- Mike Dinn -- Canberra Ouch! The irony dripped off that one so heavily that it hit me on the foot and hurt. ;D
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Post by Kiwi on Jun 20, 2008 10:48:48 GMT -4
I've just had a good chuckle from that link. I read the biography last night and thought, "There's something familiar about that first photo of the younger Mike Dinn sitting at a desk." Eventually I put the thought aside because, having been a professional people-photographer in New Zealand's capital city, I've observed thousands of faces over the years. But tonight I went back for another look and, for a while, still puzzled over who it reminded me of. Then, in a moment of daydreaming, it finally came: Jerry Allison of The Crickets, back when he was the drummer for Buddy Holly. It's not exactly Jerry, but there certainly is a strong similarity to some photos of him, and in others it's near enough to at least pass for his brother. Previous posts of mine have indicated that two of my biggest interests over the last ten years have been Buddy Holly and Apollo. Two years ago today I bought a CD that was recorded in 2004, The Crickets and Their Buddies, on which the drumming and percussion is credited to J. I. Allison. Still at it, 45 years after Buddy Holly died.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jun 21, 2008 9:23:55 GMT -4
I note in your OP you talked about the doopler shifts as the craft travelled back and forth. I have seen others describe this as helpful in tracking. What I was wondering is, did you guys have the ability to track the LM as it was landing by way of their radio signals, dopler changes or otherwise? Doppler was/is the most important tracking data. The LM was certainly tracked on landing, although we at Honeysuckle did not actually see a landing. The doppler shift can be measured with great precision, because of phase locked loops maintaing accurate coherence, combined with very high quality frequency and time standards. If you want to follow this up, go look at page 61 of NASA SP-87 , first link on history.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-TVDocs.html. This document should keep anybody interested in Apollo communications occupied for many hours. I wonder what HBers think about all the trouble NASA went to to pretend they were implementing a state of the art space communications world network Mike Dinn -- Canberra Thanks for that Mike. I wasn't sure if you guys had got to see a landing or if Goldstone had been greedy and nabbed them all, handy Document, thanks for the link.
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Post by tedward on Jun 23, 2008 16:42:12 GMT -4
On a related note. Just been trying to find some info relating to a TV show that was on recently in the UK. Reference to Jodrell bank tracking 11 as a side show to tracking Luna 15. They showed a brief glimpse of a graph showing the decent of 11 and commentary from the astronomer mentions detecting when it started on manual control. Unable to find the info I was looking for but did find this. www.jb.man.ac.uk/public/story/tracking/jodrole2.htm#Luna1524probesNote there are two sections. Not read it all yet but looks interesting. PS apologies if it is a repost.
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Post by Ginnie on Jun 23, 2008 18:48:15 GMT -4
I don't want to pick on Turbonium too much, but perhaps he could address Mike Dinn's first post. Maybe he could talk to his HB friends and together come up with a rebuff to Mike's argument.
....I'm sure it is something that we will never get to see... And if Jarrah is lurking , maybe you could make a new movie about how they faked all the radio signals and no one detected it.
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