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Post by Kiwi on Aug 15, 2008 6:05:50 GMT -4
For real? That is so funny. Yep, it was on a New Zealand message board. Except that he didn't write the Ummm, I added that for effect. But I'll bet he thought something along those lines. Besides, being a musician, you'd know that we're allowed the odd flourish now and then -- to look a bit like Keith Moon even if we don't have much chance of sounding like him. Anyway, that's my excuse. I've occasionally mentioned "debates" on that board in this thread.
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Post by Grand Lunar on Aug 15, 2008 8:08:52 GMT -4
Only goes to show that many HBs appearently have little idea what they talk about when it comes to Apollo.
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Sept 7, 2008 4:21:40 GMT -4
Someones on youtube is making the old claim that the astronauts were taking to many pictures to have gotten what they needed done on the moon. Now since I have never used a hasselblud in a space suit on the moon, so I don't know how long it would take to take a picture. Any leads?
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Post by Grand Lunar on Sept 7, 2008 8:37:46 GMT -4
I can't imagine it taking longer to take a picture with the astronaut's cameras that it would with one you get at the store. Given that the camera had an autoadvance function (IIRC), one could take many pictures per minute, and still be able to collect rocks an deploy the experiments.
Given that two cameras between the astronauts were used for later missions, it's not far fetched in that case either.
I think Jay has a lead on his site somewhere.
In any case, this goes to show how desperate HBs are for claims; they'll spout anything that they think sounds good.
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Post by BertL on Sept 7, 2008 9:01:05 GMT -4
Also, there were a lot of pictures taken that were meant to become panoramas. Because of that, all the astronaut had to do for those sequences (usually around 10 pictures for every sequence), was take a picture, turn around a bit, take another picture, turn around a bit... this means that a lot of pictures could be taken in a very small timeframe. Bringing the number of pictures up greatly, and thus imbalancing the amount of seconds between one picture.
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Post by JayUtah on Sept 7, 2008 10:32:04 GMT -4
How fast can you take a picture with the Apollo Hasselblad? As fast as you can push the button.
With the zone-focus ring set at "medium" you would at most have to switch the f-stop from f/8 to f/11 or also to f/5.6 between pictures.
The problem with that argument is still the numerical behavior of the arithmetic average. The conspiracists compute an average time between frames and reckon that it's too short to get anything else done. As BertL and others have noticed, you can fire off a 10-frame pan in about 15 seconds, leaving you several minutes to do something else that doesn't involve photography, without blowing the average.
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Post by Count Zero on Sept 7, 2008 13:09:03 GMT -4
Also, the HBs subtract time spent gathering surface samples and setting-up ALSEP experiments from the time available for photography. This is wrong - photo documentation was an essential part of both activities. On later missions, each documented sample included two photographs in-situ (one down-sun and one cross-sun) and one photograph of the collection area after the sample was removed.
I recall a snippet of video from Apollo 16 where an astronaut changes a film magazine at the rover. After the new magazine is loaded, he fires-off several frames to clear the sun-struck film leader. You can see the autowinder advancing after each shot. It takes ~1 second for it to go around once.
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Post by dwight on Sept 7, 2008 14:52:58 GMT -4
The latest display of ignorance involves alleged wires on a kinescope. Most normal folk acknowledge scratches occur on film, yet the CT brigade let by our old favourite moonmovie.com who is in now way related to www.moonmovie.com claims they see wires in the clip. When asked why these marks aren't on the 2" CBS master I'm told the video was a 2005 remastered tape!? Yep that's why I viewed a 2" 1972 tape, but hey dont let those little tidbits bother you.
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Post by smlbstcbr on Sept 7, 2008 16:39:44 GMT -4
I have a question about some photos of Apollo 11. As far as I know (been wrong many times) they took the Hasselblads with the reseau plate in the Eagle. However, the photos taken by Aldrin and Armstrong in the LEM after the EVA do not have the fiducials that are very visible in all the moon photos. Was there another camera for them? Please, do not take me for a novice among the HBs, it's only my curiosity about gear taken up there.
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Post by laurel on Sept 7, 2008 17:44:12 GMT -4
Regarding photographs without crosshairs. From the Apollo 11 ALSJ: 112:20:56 Aldrin: Roger, Houston. Tranquility Base. We're in the process of using up what film we have, and I'm just getting ready to change the primary ECS canister. Over. [They are finishing up magazines 37/R, taking AS11-37-5460 to 5555, and 39/Q, taking AS11-39-5792 to 5839. Journal Contributor Bob Farwell has selected frames from Magazine 37/R for a pan covering both windows. Note that Farwell's construction involves a certain amount of artistic license because neither Neil or Buzz actually had an unrestricted view from side to side, as shown by pans assembled from Magazine 39/Q images for the CDR window and the LMP window. Exercising a bit more artistic license, Farwell has created an enhanced version by using pre-EVA image AS11-37-5452 to fill the a gap in the post-EVA coverage below Neil's window. Finally, Farwell, modified Figure 10.12 from the Lunar Sourcebook to provided a rough comparison with the assembled pan. Farwell has provided a fuller discussion of the assembled pan and related items.] [Frame 5480 shows the view out Buzz's window, including the flag and the TV camera. Note the cluster of boulders in the background. These may have been ejected from West Crater.]
[All the photos taken at this time are out the forward windows except AS11-37-5506 to 5509 which are photos of Earth taken out the rendezvous window over Neil's head. These may be the Earth photos that Neil remembers taking - rather than AS11-40-5923 and 5924, the two taken out on the surface, probably by Buzz. Note that none of these photos have reseau crosses, indicating that they were taken with the IVA (intra-vehicular activity) Hasselblad. The EVA Hasselblad was purposefully left outside.]
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 7, 2008 18:36:10 GMT -4
Also, the HBs subtract time spent gathering surface samples and setting-up ALSEP experiments from the time available for photography. This is wrong - photo documentation was an essential part of both activities. On later missions, each documented sample included two photographs in-situ (one down-sun and one cross-sun) and one photograph of the collection area after the sample was removed. I recall a snippet of video from Apollo 16 where an astronaut changes a film magazine at the rover. After the new magazine is loaded, he fires-off several frames to clear the sun-struck film leader. You can see the autowinder advancing after each shot. It takes ~1 second for it to go around once. Yes the most quote work if Jack White's one where he "randomly" determines (ie guesses) how long it too to do all the driving and ALSEP setup, etc, subtracts that then divides the rest of the time by the number of photos to claim that they had to take one photo every 11 seconds. Except.... 1) He has no evidence that his guess of the time takern for non-photograph activity is anywhere near correct. 2) he didn't take into account the two cameras on all missions but 11 3) He didn't take into account pictures taken during the ALSEP set up or driving around (and in the Rover missions there are whole rolls used up while driving about) 4) If you look at the figures given and accept them regardless of the above errors, then the time remaining is just the time they had for taking photos and they still had an average of 11 seconds to point the camera and press a button. Who couldn't take a photo in 11 seconds?
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Post by smlbstcbr on Sept 7, 2008 22:41:27 GMT -4
Regarding photographs without crosshairs. From the Apollo 11 ALSJ: 112:20:56 Aldrin: Roger, Houston. Tranquility Base. We're in the process of using up what film we have, and I'm just getting ready to change the primary ECS canister. Over. [They are finishing up magazines 37/R, taking AS11-37-5460 to 5555, and 39/Q, taking AS11-39-5792 to 5839. Journal Contributor Bob Farwell has selected frames from Magazine 37/R for a pan covering both windows. Note that Farwell's construction involves a certain amount of artistic license because neither Neil or Buzz actually had an unrestricted view from side to side, as shown by pans assembled from Magazine 39/Q images for the CDR window and the LMP window. Exercising a bit more artistic license, Farwell has created an enhanced version by using pre-EVA image AS11-37-5452 to fill the a gap in the post-EVA coverage below Neil's window. Finally, Farwell, modified Figure 10.12 from the Lunar Sourcebook to provided a rough comparison with the assembled pan. Farwell has provided a fuller discussion of the assembled pan and related items.] [Frame 5480 shows the view out Buzz's window, including the flag and the TV camera. Note the cluster of boulders in the background. These may have been ejected from West Crater.] [ All the photos taken at this time are out the forward windows except AS11-37-5506 to 5509 which are photos of Earth taken out the rendezvous window over Neil's head. These may be the Earth photos that Neil remembers taking - rather than AS11-40-5923 and 5924, the two taken out on the surface, probably by Buzz. Note that none of these photos have reseau crosses, indicating that they were taken with the IVA (intra-vehicular activity) Hasselblad. The EVA Hasselblad was purposefully left outside.] Thank you very much, I appreciate the time you take to answer my questions As a personal observation, I think that the photographic record of every Apollo mission is priceless. I am happily surprised by the quality of the pictures, the best evidence we set foot on the moon.
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Post by BertL on Sept 8, 2008 2:33:30 GMT -4
I didn't know that as well, laurel. Thanks! ;D
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raven
Jupiter
That ain't Earth, kiddies.
Posts: 509
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Post by raven on Sept 8, 2008 15:07:29 GMT -4
Here is an interesting site with lots of coolies photos from Soviet probes. Some, especially from the film return missions, are almost as breath taking as Apollo.
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Post by BertL on Sept 8, 2008 15:10:26 GMT -4
Wow. The Zond-3 pictures of the moon make it looks like this big chunk of rock instead of this nice round circle we see in the sky. And Zond-5's picture of Earth... wow. The other missions have some beautiful pictures too, but my favorite has got to be Zond-5's.
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