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Post by gillianren on Sept 11, 2008 15:57:49 GMT -4
I read a story--I can't now remember where--about Peter Jennings, I believe, actually influencing people by reading completely unbiased stories with biased facial expressions. I don't know if I believe it.
I also wonder . . . let us assume that there is a liberal media bias. Why would that be? Would that say more about the reporters or the news?
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Post by dmundt on Sept 11, 2008 16:12:12 GMT -4
Yeah -- that's the stuff. People's opinions on the subject, as opposed to hard data.
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Post by dmundt on Sept 11, 2008 16:21:26 GMT -4
I don't think you can say that subjects are liberal or conservative, only the opinions people have on those subjects can be described as such. For example, there are both liberal and conservative opinions on the issue of Global Warming. The subject itself is neither one nor the other. That global warming is being caused by humans is a centrist position, but as we have seen time and again (by you) it is claimed that there is bias in reporting it as a fact and that bias must be liberal.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Sept 11, 2008 16:33:23 GMT -4
I also wonder . . . let us assume that there is a liberal media bias. Why would that be? Would that say more about the reporters or the news? A lot of surveys have determined that journalists in the major news networks and newspapers vote overwhelmingly Democratic. Many of them also self-identify as holding liberal points of view. Whether there is a liberal bias in the actual reporting as well is the more serious issue. I maintain that there is. The majority of Americans agree with me, as shown in the Rassmussen report (I mentioned this same report earlier on in another thread). No, it's not "proof", but it at least indicates that the idea is plausible to a great many people, and with a largely subjective issue like bias that can be telling.
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Bob B.
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Post by Bob B. on Sept 11, 2008 16:39:26 GMT -4
... as opposed to hard data. And what hard data do you propose that can be used to measure bias?
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Sept 11, 2008 16:47:47 GMT -4
Facts? The ombudsman of the Washington Post, Deborah Howell, wrote in an August 17th article that Sen. Obama had received 3 times the front page coverage that Sen. McCain had since Obama became the Democratic candidate. Since June 4, Obama had been covered in 142 total stories to 96 on McCain. Obama had been featured in 35 page 1 stories with McCain featured in 13. Obama also dominates photos in the paper, with 143 photos of Obama to 100 of McCain - before Howell pointed out a disparity in coverage it was 122 to 78 in favor of Obama. More facts will be forthcoming.
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Post by dmundt on Sept 11, 2008 16:49:27 GMT -4
I'm just saying that people may believe there is bias, but opinions about a belief do not show the belief to be correct.
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Post by dmundt on Sept 11, 2008 16:51:36 GMT -4
Facts? The ombudsman of the Washington Post, Deborah Howell, wrote in an August 17th article that Sen. Obama had received 3 times the front page coverage that Sen. McCain had since Obama became the Democratic candidate. Since June 4, Obama had been covered in 142 total stories to 96 on McCain. Obama had been featured in 35 page 1 stories with McCain featured in 13. Obama also dominates photos in the paper, with 143 photos of Obama to 100 of McCain - before Howell pointed out a disparity in coverage it was 122 to 78 in favor of Obama. More facts will be forthcoming. Listing random facts doesn't prove anything, Jason. For every "fact" you bring up, I can show you any number of stories slanted to your side of the table. It proves nothing.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Sept 11, 2008 16:53:02 GMT -4
... as opposed to hard data. And what hard data do you propose that can be used to measure bias? I already asked wdmundt what evidence would convince him of bias and he hasn't yet answered.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Sept 11, 2008 16:54:20 GMT -4
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Post by dmundt on Sept 11, 2008 16:55:31 GMT -4
And what hard data do you propose that can be used to measure bias? I already asked wdmundt what evidence would convince him of bias and he hasn't yet answered. Yes, but I have explained why it is hard to prove -- because centrist positions are in the eye of the beholder.
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Bob B.
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Post by Bob B. on Sept 11, 2008 17:08:14 GMT -4
I'm just saying that people may believe there is bias, but opinions about a belief do not show the belief to be correct. I would argue that what is judged to be bias and what is judged not to be bias IS a matter of opinion.
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Post by dmundt on Sept 11, 2008 17:15:14 GMT -4
I'm just saying that people may believe there is bias, but opinions about a belief do not show the belief to be correct. I would argue that what is judged to be bias and what is judged not to be bias IS a matter of opinion. I think we are arguing the same thing, though my point relative to the poll you linked to is that it is only proof of an opinion. Opinions shape perceptions of bias -- but bias can exist as a reality independent of opinion.
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Bob B.
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Post by Bob B. on Sept 11, 2008 17:15:20 GMT -4
Yes, but I have explained why it is hard to prove -- because centrist positions are in the eye of the beholder. Couldn't the centrist position be defined as that at which the percentage of people who think the media is left-bias is equal to the percentage of people who think the media is right-bias?
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Post by dmundt on Sept 11, 2008 17:19:56 GMT -4
Yes, but I have explained why it is hard to prove -- because centrist positions are in the eye of the beholder. Couldn't the centrist position be defined as that at which the percentage of people who think the media is left-bias is equal to the percentage of people who think the media is right-bias? I don't think so. Then you just have statistical parity between two opposing groups, which isn't really a position. Opinions about bias are biased by one's own opinions. How's that for clarity?
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