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Post by gillianren on Jan 21, 2010 20:17:12 GMT -4
If that is true that the pilot's door never opened during the whole flight then the muslim terrorists plot don't hold that is the point. I don't think you get how science works. You still have to explain the data your premise is based on better than the current theory explains all the data it is based on, or at least most of it. "Where did the plane and people go?" is a pretty big gap in your premise which you must explain in order for your premise to make any bloody sense.
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Post by archer17 on Jan 21, 2010 21:23:07 GMT -4
...If that is true that the pilot's door never opened during the whole flight then the muslim terrorists plot don't hold that is the point. Doesn't this whole thing twitch your dormant rational skepticism even a little? Don't you find it odd that the cockpit door never opens? If this was the FDR from the Pentagon then it debunks the oft-repeated truther claim that no plane was involved and if it wasn't why "plant" something that requires the pilots to wear Depends? This particular truther "smoking gun" basically fizzled out not long after it surfaced a couple months ago feelfree222, why regurgitate it now?
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Post by Obviousman on Jan 21, 2010 22:26:02 GMT -4
The DFDR data shows that the door discrete was listed as UNCONFIRMED or NOT WORKING.
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Post by feelfree222 on Jan 22, 2010 0:20:58 GMT -4
If that is true that the pilot's door never opened during the whole flight then the muslim terrorists plot don't hold that is the point. Well, whilst perusing around the web, I stumbled on a point I wonder if you can clarify. I have not checked this myself but the data shows the door closed for several flights. Or rather the data is recorded in such a way that gives door closed on the data. So, to have several flights with no door opening is rather hard. Pilots get fed, pilots get relief breaks. Also I believe I saw comment where an engine showed a brief test. No door open in the data. Tests are done on the ground by engineers. Can you throw any light on this? The reason is: The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.
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Post by laurel on Jan 22, 2010 0:25:14 GMT -4
I would also like to know where the plane and the passengers went.
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Post by gillianren on Jan 22, 2010 0:25:17 GMT -4
The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working. Doubtless you can show evidence for the statement that the door sensor working is part of that?
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Post by feelfree222 on Jan 22, 2010 0:37:26 GMT -4
If that is true that the pilot's door never opened during the whole flight then the muslim terrorists plot don't hold that is the point. You have yet to show that the door didn't open. I repeat: what happens if the FDR tries to record data from a sensor that is not present? It is a layman's assumption that it would say something other than closed or opened, but the data is never supposed to be analysed by laymen, so your assumptions may be utterly wrong. It is far simpler to have a system where 'closed' is the default setting and it only responds when the door is opened (so you only have to set the FDR to respond to one input (open), not two (sensor active closed, sensor active open) to change it from its default state), which means if the sensor is not present it will say the door is always closed. The datas were not analysed by a layman. And as with all conspiracy theories, if you can't provide a better scenario the official story still holds. Where did the plane and passengers go if not into the Pentagon? The plane did crashed into the Pentagon .... maybe not because of a hyjacking by the Muslims. It would be interesting to know if the auto pilot datas correspond to the original flight path ?
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Post by Obviousman on Jan 22, 2010 0:46:11 GMT -4
The reason is: The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working. Absolute bull. It may be on the MEL but there is no physical reason why the aircraft cannot fly with a U/S CVR / FDR.
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Post by feelfree222 on Jan 22, 2010 0:48:14 GMT -4
The reason is: The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working. Absolute bull. It may be on the MEL but there is no physical reason why the aircraft cannot fly with a U/S CVR / FDR. That is not a physical reason but a procedure reason.
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Post by Obviousman on Jan 22, 2010 0:53:17 GMT -4
And if the door discrete is not fitted then the DFDR is serviceable IAW the MEL and the "evidence" shows nothing but nominal operation!
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Post by Obviousman on Jan 22, 2010 0:57:57 GMT -4
So: show me the documentation which said that the flight deck door parameter was a required part of a serviceable DFDR. You won't be able to, because it never was. It was fitted for not with.
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Post by feelfree222 on Jan 22, 2010 1:11:44 GMT -4
And if the door discrete is not fitted then the DFDR is serviceable IAW the MEL and the "evidence" shows nothing but nominal operation! You are right , After verification The FDR parameter for the FLT DECK DOOR was not active and recorded on this model B757. Flight 77 was a B757-2 with "N" numbers, " of N644AA" indicating that it was built in late 1991, when this model was manufactured at Boeing. On this model the FDR did not record the state of this parameter in the FDR data, even though they left room for it and recorded this data later in the newer B757-3. There is no indication that this model had ever been upgraded to a B757-3 The last 42 hours on the FDR data shows in fact no record of this function becoming active, meaning the door switch parameter had never been recorded as open on any of these flights even though this data covered 12 separate flights, again confirming that this FDR parameter was inoperative on this model of B757-2.
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Post by Obviousman on Jan 22, 2010 1:39:17 GMT -4
Proving that PFT are idiots yet again!
If you are serious about learning some of the aviation aspects about that day, I am more than happy to spend the time answering your questions.
If you plan to just parrot PFT - without questioning its veracity - then I haven't got the time for you, as it has been covered in other forums.
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Post by Data Cable on Jan 22, 2010 1:55:46 GMT -4
It would be interesting to know if the auto pilot datas correspond to the original flight path ? Autopilot cannot wrest control of an aircraft from its pilot(s).
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Post by feelfree222 on Jan 22, 2010 2:01:40 GMT -4
It would be interesting to know if the auto pilot datas correspond to the original flight path ? Autopilot cannot wrest control of an aircraft from its pilot(s). It can if the pilots are unconscious.
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