Von Braun's antarctic mission

[porphyry]

McGowan says that Von Braun and a team of scientists went to Antarctica in 1967 and that NASA "never offered much of an explanation."

Is this true? Did NASA offer any explanation at all, and if so, what did they say? And does anybody here have an explanation?

[Bob B.]

Why does it matter?

[JayUtah]

Feb 6, 2010 12:57:18 GMT -4 porphyry said:

...

McGowan says that Von Braun and a team of scientists...

Wernher von Braun took a personal vacation to Antarctica in 1967. What is your evidence that there was also a "team of scientists" involved?

...NASA "never offered much of an explanation."

What sort of "explanation" would be appropriate to that situation and why?

Is this true?

Partly, yes.

Did NASA offer any explanation at all, and if so, what did they say?

Yes, they said Wernher von Braun took a personal vacation to Antarctica. I have seen claims that von Braun allowed a NASA PR photographer to accompany him, but I haven't seen any primary evidence for the composition of von Braun's party.

And does anybody here have an explanation?

What specifically requires an explanation? Is your employer accountable for all your movements away from the office?

[echnaton]

Why don't you try completing the conversations you have started instead of changing the subject? Completing them by maybe acknowledging other posters efforts and and thanking them for their contributions to your education. Insulting people elsewhere then asking them more questions is rather poor form.

[blackstar]

Feb 6, 2010 12:57:18 GMT -4 porphyry said:

McGowan says that Von Braun and a team of scientists went to Antarctica in 1967 and that NASA "never offered much of an explanation."

Is this true? Did NASA offer any explanation at all, and if so, what did they say? And does anybody here have an explanation?

As other's have said it was essentially a vacation, so there wouldn't need to be much of an explanation from NASA other than; 'he was on vacation'.
Are you suggesting there was some nefarious/covert purpose to this visit? If there was why would NASA send a rocket scientist, and a public figure to boot, to Antarctica?

[chew]

This is the one about von Braun going to Antarctica to collect meteorites so they could be passed off as moon rocks. The guy goes on vacation and the HBs try to make it seem sinister.

[echnaton]

The greatest folly of the Von Braun to Antarctica allegation is the assumption of absolute stupidity by NASA to send the world's highest profile rocket scientist to collect rocks.

[laurel]

I thought the greatest folly was that no meteorites were identified as being from the Moon until 1982.

[Jason Thompson]

Feb 6, 2010 23:57:18 GMT -4 echnaton said:

The greatest folly of the Von Braun to Antarctica allegation is the assumption of absolute stupidity by NASA to send the world's highest profile rocket scientist to collect rocks.

Quite. Can you imagine the management meeting at NASA?

'We're going to fake the landing so we need some fake moon rocks'.

'OK, well why don't we send someone out to find some meteorites. I heard Antarctica is good for finding those'

'Who did you hear that from?'

'One of our geologists'

'OK, so who should we send to look for meteorites?'

'One of our geologists'

'No, I have a better idea. How about Wernher von Braun?'

'But he's a rocket scientist'

'Yes'

'He never showed any interest or aptitude for geology'

'Right'

'He probably couldn't tell a meteorite from a lump of penguin turd'

'Probably not'

'He's one of the world's best known personalities in the field of rocketry: everyone knows who he is and they'll know he's gone'

'Right. He's perfect for the job'

'Wouldn't a trained geologist who is less well-known by the public be more likely to find what we want?'

'No'

'OK, shall we get one of the geologists to cover for von Braun on the Saturn V project?'

'Excellent idea!'

[randombloke]

The true HB would, of course, immediately point out the absurdity of finding penguin turds anywhere in Antarctica, as all the Polar Bears would have eaten them already, then claim absolute victory.



P.S. Can we leverage some totally biased moderator power to change the thread title to "Von Braun's antarctic vacation" please?

[Kiwi]

Feb 6, 2010 12:57:18 GMT -4 porphyry said:

And does anybody here have an explanation?

It's hardly a secret. Find yourself a copy of National Geographic, October 1968. I found one last month during my first search.

On page 568 it has a 24-page article Antarctica: Icy Testing Ground for Space by Samuel W. Matthews, which might answer some of your questions. There was a large programme of study. In brief, it made perfect sense for NASA to be studying one of the most hostile environments on earth to get some idea of what environments off earth might be like.

On page 571 it has a brief, and its only, mention of von Braun:
"Last January," a young Ph.D. at Byrd told me casually, "Dr. Wernher von Braun flew in to see our moon station. Here we are, out on the end of a limb, buried in the ice, living under the most hostile conditions. No need to wonder what a base on the moon might be like someday. We're it already."

It continues:

During my own month on "the Ice," as all Antarctic hands call their world, I found:
* Biologists from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California studying microscopic forms of life that somehow survive the gripping cold, desert drought, and lack of sunlight half the year in mysteriously snow-free valleys. "We hope to learn how to detect life on Mars, if any exists there," they said.
* Physicists measuring upper-atmospheric disturbances and solar winds that could menace moon-bound astronauts.
* Psychophysiologists recording men's sleeping and dreaming behavior, to learn the effects of living under cramped and totally isolated conditions, as in a future space station.
* Scientists of a dozen nations working together, under international exchange programs, without regard to political differences. There is no cold war in earth's coldest land.
* Tourists, farther south than ever before...

Even more intriguing than von Braun visiting an Antarctic research station is a United States Rear Admiral visiting a Russian Station there, at the height of the cold war. The caption to the photo on page 587 says:

Russian hospitality: Soviet leader Boris Belyaev, right, spreads a welcome at pinup-decorated Vostok Station. U.S. Antarctic commander Rear Adm. J. Lloyd Abbot, Jr., and Jerry Huffman, senior National Science Foundation representative, flew in two American scientists for joint ionosphere studies. Likewise, Russians work each year at U.S. bases.

The article has the names of ships I forgot decades ago (Eltanin, Burton Island, Westwind, and on page 577 it has a photo of the red-hulled ship Magga Dan, a name I hadn't heard since 1968. It took the first 21 tourists to Antarctica, and because it left from New Zealand it was in our news at the time.


[Fixed typos -- missing full stop and Sation/Station.]

[ineluki]

Feb 7, 2010 9:53:06 GMT -4 Kiwi said:

Even more intriguing than von Braun visiting an Antarctic research station is a United States Rear Admiral visiting a Russian Sation there, at the height of the cold war.

A clear sign that the whole cold war was staged

[JayUtah]

Feb 6, 2010 21:44:51 GMT -4 chew said:

This is the one about von Braun going to Antarctica to collect meteorites so they could be passed off as moon rocks.

Well we don't know if this is "that one" because Porphyry hasn't responded in this thread since his original few statements, which are mostly just trying to trump up vague suspicion. Until he actually makes a specific argument that doesn't beg the question, we're stuck guessing.

[tkw251070]

Feb 7, 2010 6:03:08 GMT -4 Jason Thompson said:

Quite. Can you imagine the management meeting at NASA?

'We're going to fake the landing so we need some fake moon rocks'.

'OK, well why don't we send someone out to find some meteorites. I heard Antarctica is good for finding those'

'Who did you hear that from?'

'One of our geologists'

'OK, so who should we send to look for meteorites?'

'One of our geologists'

'No, I have a better idea. How about Wernher von Braun?'

'But he's a rocket scientist'

'Yes'

'He never showed any interest or aptitude for geology'

'Right'

'He probably couldn't tell a meteorite from a lump of penguin turd'

'Probably not'

'He's one of the world's best known personalities in the field of rocketry: everyone knows who he is and they'll know he's gone'

'Right. He's perfect for the job'

'Wouldn't a trained geologist who is less well-known by the public be more likely to find what we want?'

'No'

'OK, shall we get one of the geologists to cover for von Braun on the Saturn V project?'

'Excellent idea!'

Jason, you could write Dilbert. I'm in tears... that is so Dilbertesque.

[drewid]

Feb 7, 2010 9:53:06 GMT -4 Kiwi said:

Feb 6, 2010 12:57:18 GMT -4 porphyry said:

And does anybody here have an explanation?

It's hardly a secret. Find yourself a copy of National Geographic, October 1968. I found one last month during my first search]

I'd heard that it was a research trip, but not the detail. That's a fascinating article, I'd love to get a look at the magazine, do they have an online archive?