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Post by ineluki on Mar 19, 2010 8:58:04 GMT -4
IVon Braun was a Nazi war criminal that utilized slave labor in Nazi Germany. I'm still missing a real point. Even if von Braun was a Nazi, how does that influence his abilities in Rocketry?
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Post by chew on Mar 19, 2010 10:12:26 GMT -4
IVon Braun was a Nazi war criminal that utilized slave labor in Nazi Germany. I'm still missing a real point. Even if von Braun was a Nazi, how does that influence his abilities in Rocketry? Evil Geniuses are only capable of making death rays, not rockets.
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Post by Kiwi on Mar 19, 2010 11:13:22 GMT -4
Astronaut Charles Conrad, Jr, Skylab-2 commander, smiles happily for the camera after a hot bath in the shower in the crew quarters of the Orbital Workshop of the Skylab space station. Was that a towel in the upper right corner of the picture? Was it hanging down as it would on Earth? Gravity? mix.msfc.nasa.gov/IMAGES/HIGH/7042918.jpgThis is rather bizarre, which is typical of the "photo analysis" done by people who don't know much about analysing photos. Pete Conrad was on the Skylab 1 mission, not Skylab 2. You ask if the object is a towel. Why do you wonder? Study it, analyse it. It looks like it is made of fairly fine, smooth fabric, not the coarse, thick material of a typical bathtowel. You ask if it's hanging, but if "down" is parallel to the sides of the photo, it's hanging in the wrong direction, about 30 degrees off vertical. What do you know about the stiffness of the fabric? What do you know about which direction is down? Is the fabric stiff enough for it to hang outward at a 30 degree angle if earth's gravity is pulling it straight down toward the bottom of the picture? The collapsible shower stall is probably attached to the ring above Conrad's head when in use, so the "towel" is about as far forward, toward the camera, as Conrad's left hand, and in that case it's not very big, is it? Even if it's folded in half lengthwise, the portion we see is not as wide as Conrad's face, so if it's twice as wide as we see, it is still very small for a towel. Was it hanging down as it would on Earth? Gravity?Can shuttles soar in space as they did in Armageddon? Can we hear explosions in space, with no delay for distance, as we heard in Star Wars? Can lunar dust billow as we saw in From the Earth to the Moon? Can we see both sunlit scenes and stars at the same time as we did in both Armageddon and Star Wars and almost every other space movie? Did you notice what looks like a similar small cloth at the bottom right? It looks like it is made of the same white fabric with the red border. You haven't mentioned at all the third red-bordered white cloth which is floating above Conrad's right hand, with no evidence that it is attached to anything or suspended by anything. It could hardly have been thrown there by Conrad for the benefit of the camera if it is in earth's gravity. Perhaps, as PeterB put it: Obviously the bunched towel "floating" by Pete Conrad's head was photographed in mid-flight as it was thrown across the field of view. It is casting a bigger shadow on the stall's fabric than Conrad's ear lobes are, so it is clearly further foward from its background than his ears are from theirs. This same photo was published on page 209 of Time-Life's 1984 book Life in Space. The caption says, Refreshed after a shower, Conrad grins from Skylab's collapsible shower stall as a washcloth floats above his right hand. Drying oneself and the stall with a hand-held vacuum hose made showering a tedious, hour-long process.In two other photos on the same page, Conrad floats with his feet overhead as he pedals the bicycle ergometer with his hands for exercise, and in the third photo he is suspened upside-down from the ceiling by one strap around his bent knee, as he undergoes an oral examination by crewmate, Dr Joe Kerwin. Hanging the way he is would be rather difficult in gravity. Sorry, I don't buy what you say. Along with the many photos and movies of Skylab floating above the earth and the stories of the missions and how Skylab was rescued from near-disaster, the evidence for its reality is rather copious. Al Bean (Captain, US Navy, retired) seems to be a pretty accessible guy even though he's about 77, so why don't you contact him and see what he thinks of your Skylab-fakery idea? Besides walking on the moon with Pete Conrad, he was part of the Skylab 2 crew. Or so NASA tells us. :-) Edited to add one final thing: Do read my two favourite quotes below. They are worth remembering.
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Post by tedward on Mar 19, 2010 14:26:28 GMT -4
IVon Braun was a Nazi war criminal that utilized slave labor in Nazi Germany. I'm still missing a real point. Even if von Braun was a Nazi, how does that influence his abilities in Rocketry? I think its a case of trying to discredit someone with the aim of using it to to say if he was a bad person then he must have lied. Sort of what Chew says. I find the general slanging off because history dealt you a hand that you did not like a bit of a cheap shot. Shindler was a card carrying Nazi.
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Post by laurel on Mar 19, 2010 14:28:56 GMT -4
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Mar 19, 2010 15:01:57 GMT -4
Yes, some sources refer to the initial launch of the unmanned space station as Skylab 1. The three missions to occupy the station are referred to as Skylab 2, 3 and 4.
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Post by ka9q on Mar 22, 2010 3:53:13 GMT -4
Yes, some sources refer to the initial launch of the unmanned space station as Skylab 1. The three missions to occupy the station are referred to as Skylab 2, 3 and 4. This is in fact the official numbering. Unfortunately, many unofficial sources refer to the three Saturn 1B crew flights as Skylab 1, 2 and 3. And so confusion still reigns almost 40 years later. For this reason, I think it's best to be very precise in all references to the Skylab missions. E.g., "The second Skylab crew, Bean, Lousma and Garriott..." rather than simply "The Skylab-3 crew ..."
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Mar 22, 2010 11:34:35 GMT -4
I'm still missing a real point. Even if von Braun was a Nazi, how does that influence his abilities in Rocketry? I think its a case of trying to discredit someone with the aim of using it to to say if he was a bad person then he must have lied. Sort of what Chew says. I find the general slanging off because history dealt you a hand that you did not like a bit of a cheap shot. Shindler was a card carrying Nazi. I guess the boosts to jet engine and submarine technology that we got from the Nazis must also be fake, eh? And the Autobahn is a figment of the imagination? What about Volkswagon?
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Post by dwight on Mar 22, 2010 12:19:06 GMT -4
Not to mention tape recording technology developed by Les Paul using confiscated german gear.
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Post by echnaton on Mar 22, 2010 12:40:06 GMT -4
Not to mention tape recording technology developed by Les Paul using confiscated german gear. You know, until I read the, I'd never put it together. Some say there are subtle NAZI markings in the wood grain of some original Less Paul guitars. They must have been inserted in the design by a whistle blower.
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Post by tedward on Mar 22, 2010 13:14:33 GMT -4
I think its a case of trying to discredit someone with the aim of using it to to say if he was a bad person then he must have lied. Sort of what Chew says. I find the general slanging off because history dealt you a hand that you did not like a bit of a cheap shot. Shindler was a card carrying Nazi. I guess the boosts to jet engine and submarine technology that we got from the Nazis must also be fake, eh? And the Autobahn is a figment of the imagination? What about Volkswagon? There was an interesting program on UK tv several years ago and it was all about the snatch squads roaming Europe towards the end of WWII and at its end. These squads were after the talent and came in various nationalities. Well, US, UK and USSR. Some Germans where they could sought out the side they wanted, which was usually the West after what happened on the Eastern front and during the USSR push through Germany. The USSR managed to get a few. Also many companies that supported the nazi whether willingly or not are now in mainstream life today. Krupp for example or Siemens. Don't hear them getting blackballed bythe HB and probably unwittingly using a result of their labors. And lets not forget all the non combatants that were killed during allied bombing. On of the rocket sites is a mass grave for thousands.
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Post by drewid on Mar 22, 2010 15:58:23 GMT -4
Or Volkswagon, or Hugo Boss, the reason the SS uniforms looked so sharp.
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Post by Kiwi on Mar 23, 2010 22:33:31 GMT -4
Yes, some sources refer to the initial launch of the unmanned space station as Skylab 1. The three missions to occupy the station are referred to as Skylab 2, 3 and 4. This is in fact the official numbering. Unfortunately, many unofficial sources refer to the three Saturn 1B crew flights as Skylab 1, 2 and 3. And so confusion still reigns almost 40 years later. For this reason, I think it's best to be very precise in all references to the Skylab missions. E.g., "The second Skylab crew, Bean, Lousma and Garriott..." rather than simply "The Skylab-3 crew ..." Thanks Laurel, Bob and Ka9q. This is interesting -- I wonder when the current Skylab numbers actually became official. Remember that the Apollo mission numbers as we now know them weren't originally the same. My Time-Life book Life In Space labels the manned Skylab missions 1 to 3, and a more recent book labels them 2 to 4. The 1975 Nasa movie Four Rooms, Earth View, about all three manned missions, also calls them 1 to 3. The movie was produced by Audio Productions and hosted by actor E.G. Marshall. Near the end, both he and one of the astronauts -- I think it's Bill Pogue -- call the final mission Skylab 3.
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Post by laurel on Mar 23, 2010 22:47:06 GMT -4
I've never heard that Christmas story before. I like it!
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Post by gwiz on Mar 24, 2010 8:01:59 GMT -4
quote]This is interesting -- I wonder when the current Skylab numbers actually became official. Remember that the Apollo mission numbers as we now know them weren't originally the same. The confusion was there right from the start. While the mission documents use Skylab 1 for the actual lab and Skylab 2 to 4 for the manned missions, the crews called themselves Skylab 1 to 3, and that's what's on the mission patches.
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