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Post by ka9q on Jul 16, 2010 5:18:33 GMT -4
Exactly... that's why I sent Adam and email with the link to the video and mentioned that he was videoed without his knowledge and that his image is now being used to propagate - albeit in an indirect way - the Hoax myth... Thanks. It's his choice whether to respond, but I sure hope he does. And if he does, I think Adam's self-deprecating sense of humor will serve him very well. Conversely, if there's one thing an obsessed crackpot does not have, it's a sense of humor. Especially about himself.
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Post by ineluki on Jul 16, 2010 7:30:40 GMT -4
Did he then poke Adam with Kaysing's book, call him a cheat and a liar, and suddenly find Mr. Savage's knuckles upside his face? Knuckles? The proper answer for the Mythbusters requires big guns or lots of explosives ;D
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Post by Obviousman on Jul 16, 2010 7:48:46 GMT -4
Geez - how many times does Jarrah have to break the law? He broke copyright law, now he broke privacy / wiretapping laws. What next?
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Post by dwight on Jul 16, 2010 8:46:00 GMT -4
Physical Injury?
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Post by scooter on Jul 16, 2010 10:10:37 GMT -4
He seems to be spending a fair amount of time in the States...DC...Las Vegas...where does he get the money for these jaunts?
He's taking this "grandson" thing to pretty extreme levels...or maybe he's just positioning himself in the community, what with the recent demises, downfalls etc of other prominent hoax types. Some of his fans have upped the volume on his behalf on various fora as well...
Gee, maybe there will be a book or video coming out soon...?
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Post by dwight on Jul 16, 2010 10:23:57 GMT -4
And what none of the other "truthseekers" see this behaviour to be extreme in the most conservative sense? Does not any one of them dare speak up and tell him perhaps he is way out of line. Talk about sheep mentality...
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Post by echnaton on Jul 16, 2010 11:51:22 GMT -4
These two party consent laws vary among states and may or may not apply when recording in a public place. This is significantly different from wire tap and phone recording situations. There may be no legal expectation of privacy in a public place, such as the hotel meeting room, under Nevada law. It is not clear to me he broke a Nevada law when making the recording. It is more likely he did when publishing the recording. The statues and trial law on this kind of action are unsettled and two party consent for public places is hard to justify.
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Post by capricorn1 on Jul 16, 2010 13:35:27 GMT -4
It is a bit weird ambushing someone that appears to be a layman in all this.....I mean, the guy was just doing a show and reading a script wasn't he?
I doubt you'd get Jarrah trying that on with somebody who really knew what they were about. I've actually watched nearly all his videos and if you know very little about the Apollo thing, you can see why he gets so many followers.
I think the book is coming soon....or god forbid yet another hoax film.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 16, 2010 13:44:55 GMT -4
It is a bit weird ambushing someone that appears to be a layman in all this.....I mean, the guy was just doing a show and reading a script wasn't he? I think that's a pretty serious simplification. He did do the work himself, though I know they had help designing the experiments. Remember, we're talking about someone who's so into the space program that he owned that suit he was bouncing around in. The point, though, is that he's famous. Jarrah has his weird thing about Jay, but ambushing Jay wouldn't interest most people, because most people (sorry, Jay) haven't the faintest clue who he is. Where as even non-viewers of the show have a decent chance of knowing who Adam Savage is.
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Post by trebor on Jul 16, 2010 13:58:13 GMT -4
There may be no legal expectation of privacy in a public place, such as the hotel meeting room, under Nevada law. It is not clear to me he broke a Nevada law when making the recording. It is more likely he did when publishing the recording. The statues and trial law on this kind of action are unsettled and two party consent for public places is hard to justify. Is a privately owned Hotel a public or private space according to the law?
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Post by trebor on Jul 16, 2010 14:13:00 GMT -4
I think the Mythbusters should revisit the Apollo "hoax". Their wonderful episode should have laid it to rest, but some people just won't give up. At the recent Amazing Meeting, Australian hoax advocate Jarrah White ambushed Adam Savage with a camera to ask if he knew that two separate experiments had managed to get laser returns directly off the lunar surface before the Apollo program. Adam said he hadn't. It's all here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzQXxo6JlMWhite is actually correct but irrelevant. And he knows it. Unable to address the real issue, he attacks a straw man. The issue is whether Apache Point, not some other laser, can receive a return from the moon without a lunar reflector. The answer to that question is 'no', just as demonstrated in the show when they shot both the Apollo 15 site and the lunar highlands. Apache Point is specifically designed to work with a reflector. Its laser pulses are far shorter and much less energetic than those in the 1962 MIT "Project LunaSee" experiment: 90 picoseconds at 115 millijoules/pulse vs half millisecond pulses carrying a whopping 50 joules each. The Apache Point laser develops an impressive-sounding peak power of 1.3 gigawatts, but only briefly; in 90 picoseconds light travels only 27 millimeters! Apache Point generates 20 pulses per second for an average power of only 0.115 * 20 = 2.3 watts. And it's average power (total energy or photon count, actually), not peak power, that determines detectability. Why such short pulses? Because MIT's goal in 1962 was just to bounce their laser off the moon to show it can be done. Apache Point regularly measures the earth-moon distance to millimeter accuracy to test a variety of scientific theories. This brings up more proof that Apache Point detected a reflector at the Apollo 15 site. The beam is kilometers wide when it reaches the moon's irregular surface, but the growing peak on the computer screen showed a very short return roughly a nanosecond wide. There must be a physically small and highly reflective object in that beam. Jarrah White has been informed of all these facts but ignores them as counter to his preferred view of the world. He produces hundreds of Youtube videos arguing that Apollo was a massive hoax. In doing so, he implicitly and falsely labels as liars many honest, hard working and accomplished engineers and scientists, such as the staff of the Apache Point Observatory. Jarrah White calls himself the "grandson of the Apollo conspiracy theory". Now he's taken on the Mythbusters. I'd love to see you accept the challenge and give him more than he bargained for. Phil Webb did a couple of excellent videos about lunar laser ranging which cover these points in great detail. Well worth a look I think....
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Post by echnaton on Jul 16, 2010 14:53:12 GMT -4
There may be no legal expectation of privacy in a public place, such as the hotel meeting room, under Nevada law. It is not clear to me he broke a Nevada law when making the recording. It is more likely he did when publishing the recording. The statues and trial law on this kind of action are unsettled and two party consent for public places is hard to justify. Is a privately owned Hotel a public or private space according to the law? It is a matter of reasonable expectation of privacy. In that regard he was in public in the since that he knew what he said could be easily overheard by others that were not part of the conversation. It is not a matter of ownership of the real estate. If he had been in a private hotel room with JW at the same hotel, he would certainly have had a reasonable expectation of privacy. But ultimately it is a matter of NV law, of which I do not have any specific knowledge. The ubiquity of small video camera makes this an evolving area of law. Regardless of the law, it is smarmy to secretly tape someone then publish the tape. More over, JW mis-characterizes the conversation. Savage's answer was somewhat vague, because he was asked a question about which he obviously was not an expert. Another example of JW focusing on minutia rather than on the real issues.
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Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
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Post by Bob B. on Jul 16, 2010 14:57:52 GMT -4
Geez - how many times does Jarrah have to break the law? He broke copyright law, now he broke privacy / wiretapping laws. What next? Isn't he breaking coyright law again by using clips from Mythbusters in his Youtube video?
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Post by gillianren on Jul 16, 2010 15:10:25 GMT -4
Depends on if it's considered to constitute fair use or not, I suppose.
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Post by JayUtah on Jul 16, 2010 15:56:52 GMT -4
I mean, the guy was just doing a show and reading a script wasn't he?The hosts are a little more than that. Adam and Jamie are technically and scientifically savvy. They certainly understand the basics of laser retroreflection. But they aren't the experts who formulate the experiments. Mythbusters has an army of producers and an even larger army of contracted researchers and subject-matter experts who consult on each show. So much of what Adam and Jamie and the others say in the course of each program is the product of considerable research and expertise on the part of others. I doubt you'd get Jarrah trying that on with somebody who really knew what they were about.Of course not. He has a standing invitation to do just that with qualified experts in his hometown whose time will be arranged and paid for by others. All he has to do is show up. He won't even acknowledge the invitation. Rather than present and defend his own theory, he still concentrates on trying to discredit or tear down real experts. I think it reinforces the notion that Jarrah White is interested only in appearing right, not in actually being right. It may be questionable whether a clandestine ambush interview is legal. There is no question that it's cowardly and in incredibly poor taste.
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