Rodin's Moon rock fakery evidence

[PeterB]

Rodin said:

...but what about the proof we DID go there

like...

Moon rocks (well no you already know that Von Braun went moon rock collecting in Antarctica)...

Well I have answers even to those that will surprise you.

Blackstar replied:

...And your evidence is woeful. For example; Von Braun's trip was a matter of public record at the time it was undertaken. He is not a geologist so exactly what merit would there be in having this high profile figure on your meteorite gathering trip? The meteorites from Antarctica and the moon samples have differences due to the meteorites passing through the earth's atmosphere and the moon samples have surface features that cannot be recreated on Earth. There are two metre sample cores among the material returned from the moon, there is no possibility Antarctic meteors could have provided these, oh and of course the small point no one knew such meteors existed until a decade AFTER Apollo.

Blackstar summarised the Apollo Moon rock evidence very well.

Rodin, I'd be very interested to see your arguments regarding the Apollo Moon rocks, especially as you think we'll be surprised.

[lukepemberton]

Aug 10, 2010 10:38:24 GMT -4 PeterB said:

Blackstar summarised the Apollo Moon rock evidence very well.

Where is that summary. It would be interesting to read. I really enjoy lunar geology, it's right up my street. It would be nice to learn new things. It's an amazing subject.

PhilWebb59 produced a rebuttal to the 'fake rocks' argument at YouTube. His channel is PhilWebb59. Each video is titled so you can dip into the part of interest. It's worth a look.

[PhantomWolf]

This is a useful link.

www.meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/howdoweknow.htm

[PeterB]

Aug 10, 2010 18:59:58 GMT -4 lukepemberton said:

Aug 10, 2010 10:38:24 GMT -4 PeterB said:

Blackstar summarised the Apollo Moon rock evidence very well.

Where is that summary. It would be interesting to read. I really enjoy lunar geology, it's right up my street. It would be nice to learn new things. It's an amazing subject.

Er, it's the quote block immediately above the words "Blackstar summarised the Apollo Moon rock evidence very well" in my original post in this thread.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean that it was a summary of all of the findings based on the Apollo rocks. Instead, I meant that Blackstar neatly summarised the issues any Hoax Believer has to overcome to prove Apollo was faked.

[rodin]

Well I have been baited into this thread. I will not be able to reply as intensively as I ahve on other threads here and elsewhere due to time constraints but I will do my best


Quote:
During the local summer of 1966/67, von Braun participated in a field trip to Antarctica, organized for him and several other members of top NASA management.[53] The goal of the field trip was to determine whether the experience gained by US scientific and technological community during the exploration of Antarctic wastelands would be useful for the manned exploration of space


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

That could have been a cover story

Antarctica is where to look for Moon Rocks that have fallen to Earth as meteorites.




Quote:
Astronauts collected hundreds of pounds of moon rocks during the Apollo missions of the 1960s and 1970s, but lunar meteorites are important because they give scientists samples from other parts of the moon, Cohen said


www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6620370/

Now it is true that meteorites have surfaces that melted due to friction with the atmosphere. But inside these meteorites structure may be unchanged I think in the same way astronauts survive a return to Earth intact. Looks that way in the image. That would then present the problem of recreating a credible surface. How to do this? I am not privy to that information.

I think I can anticipate the first challenge

[rodin]

BTW I did not choose the title, How can I provide evidence of Moon Rock fakery? For a start I am never going to get a sample, Perhaps I can however suggest a credible method for how it could have been done

[laurel]

I moved my post to this more appropriate thread.

Von Braun goes to Antarctica couple years before Apollo 11 but well into the Lunar program.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

That could have been a cover story

Antarctica is where to look for Moon Rocks that have fallen to Earth as meteorites

No rocks from Antarctica were identified as lunar meteorites until 1982. Are you saying that Von Braun could somehow identify them more than ten years before anyone else could?

[rodin]

Aug 16, 2010 18:26:04 GMT -4 laurel said:

I moved my post to this more appropriate thread.

Von Braun goes to Antarctica couple years before Apollo 11 but well into the Lunar program.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

That could have been a cover story

Antarctica is where to look for Moon Rocks that have fallen to Earth as meteorites

No rocks from Antarctica were identified as lunar meteorites until 1982. Are you saying that Von Braun could somehow identify them more than ten years before anyone else could?

Well now - how do we know that some meteorites in Antarctica come from the Moon. Is it because they match the Moon Rocks? Without the Moon Rocks as comparison could we tell if these meteorites were indeed Lunar?

[Jason Thompson]

More to the point, are you suggesting von Braun could identify anything lunar at all? He was a rocket scientist, not a geologist. What's more he was one of the most high-profile figures at NASA. If you wanted to secretly collect lunar meteorites with the aim of pulling off a hoax, would you send an anonymous geologist no-one had ever heard of, or one of the most recognised men in the world who had no expertise in geology at all?

[laurel]

Well now - how do we know that some meteorites in Antarctica come from the Moon. Is it because they match the Moon Rocks? Without the Moon Rocks as comparison could we tell if these meteorites were indeed Lunar?

"Chemical compositions, isotope ratios, minerals, and textures of the lunar meteorites are all similar to those of samples collected on the Moon during the Apollo missions. Taken together, these various characteristics are different from those of any other type of meteorite or terrestrial rock."
www.meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm

[gillianren]

"Could have been"? That's your evidence?

[blackstar]

Aug 16, 2010 18:17:51 GMT -4 rodin said:

Well I have been baited into this thread. I will not be able to reply as intensively as I ahve on other threads here and elsewhere due to time constraints but I will do my best


Quote:
During the local summer of 1966/67, von Braun participated in a field trip to Antarctica, organized for him and several other members of top NASA management.[53] The goal of the field trip was to determine whether the experience gained by US scientific and technological community during the exploration of Antarctic wastelands would be useful for the manned exploration of space


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

That could have been a cover story

Antarctica is where to look for Moon Rocks that have fallen to Earth as meteorites.




Quote:
Astronauts collected hundreds of pounds of moon rocks during the Apollo missions of the 1960s and 1970s, but lunar meteorites are important because they give scientists samples from other parts of the moon, Cohen said


www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6620370/

Well since you don't seem to have read it I'll just repost what I said earlier:

And your evidence is woeful. For example; Von Braun's trip was a matter of public record at the time it was undertaken. He is not a geologist so exactly what merit would there be in having this high profile figure on your meteorite gathering trip? The meteorites from Antarctica and the moon samples have differences due to the meteorites passing through the earth's atmosphere and the moon samples have surface features that cannot be recreated on Earth. There are two metre sample cores among the material returned from the moon, there is no possibility Antarctic meteors could have provided these, oh and of course the small point no one knew such meteors existed until a decade AFTER Apollo.

If you have any actual evidence to answer those points please present it.

Now it is true that meteorites have surfaces that melted due to friction with the atmosphere. But inside these meteorites structure may be unchanged I think in the same way astronauts survive a return to Earth intact. Looks that way in the image. That would then present the problem of recreating a credible surface. How to do this? I am not privy to that information.

I think I can anticipate the first challenge

Here's the thing, no one on Earth has ever come up with a method of recreating the surface of the moon rocks because it involves the surface of the rock being bombarded by microscopic particles travelling at around 20m/s, and not by one or two but by thousands of particles. No CT has ever demonstrated such a technology, or even offered up a design for such a device, or a photograph of one; it is exactly the same as the mythical radiation ovens in that respect.
If your argument here is going to be 'I think the rocks were faked but I've no clue how' then what possible basis do you have for rejecting the hypothesis that best fits the available facts; that men did indeed travel to the moon and return with rock samples?
On a side note frankly it's rather odd for someone claiming Apollo was a hoax to use astronauts returning to earth as an analogy...

[rodin]

Aug 16, 2010 18:35:21 GMT -4 gillianren said:

"Could have been"? That's your evidence?

..but what about the proof we DID go there

like...

Moon rocks (well no you already know that Von Braun went moon rock collecting in Antarctica)...

Well I have answers even to those that will surprise you.

Where did I use the word evidence? I said answers.

[laurel]

Aug 16, 2010 18:31:50 GMT -4 Jason Thompson said:

More to the point, are you suggesting von Braun could identify anything lunar at all? He was a rocket scientist, not a geologist. What's more he was one of the most high-profile figures at NASA. If you wanted to secretly collect lunar meteorites with the aim of pulling off a hoax, would you send an anonymous geologist no-one had ever heard of, or one of the most recognised men in the world who had no expertise in geology at all?

Well, someone at NASA could be interested in geology even if it wasn't technically part of their job description. Gene Kranz said in Failure Is Not An Option that he and Gerry Griffin went on a geology field trip with some of the Apollo astronauts and some geologists including Lee Silver, and Kranz said it was interesting and he learned a lot. Just a thought. I do agree with the rest of the statement. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just bored.

[blackstar]

Aug 16, 2010 18:41:18 GMT -4 rodin said:

Aug 16, 2010 18:35:21 GMT -4 gillianren said:

"Could have been"? That's your evidence?

..but what about the proof we DID go there

like...

Moon rocks (well no you already know that Von Braun went moon rock collecting in Antarctica)...

Well I have answers even to those that will surprise you.

Where did I use the word evidence? I said answers.

If you have no evidence then your answers are worthless. So are you saying what you have is nothing but your own personal conjecture? Or more likely something you've read on some CT site?