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Post by lionking on Oct 27, 2010 3:27:05 GMT -4
www.wikileaks.org/this link is the talk of the town. it is leaking information on America's war on Iraq and Afghanistan. Lots of embarrassments have been caused to many countries. I was not surprized that Iraqis gov and America are committing war crimes. I liked that Iran gave Karzai money. Here, when the HA and co were at odds with the former Prime Minister Foad Sanioura, I was passing by in a HA dominated place and saw a big poster fr sanioura dressed like karzai and it had written on it:Karzai of Lebanon (indicating he is an american oriented person).Now, Karzai admitted receiving money from Iran, and even said it is normal. I am very happy for them.. I don't know if it is the Russians who are doing this, but it is very good and I hope things related to Lebanon also get uncovered.
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Post by Obviousman on Oct 27, 2010 4:49:25 GMT -4
FWIW, as a serving military Officer, I support whistle-blowers to a large degree but you have to be cautious about revealing operational capabilities or methods. Some of the Wikileaks might (I have not read through them) compromise personnel on current operations.
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Post by randombloke on Oct 27, 2010 5:41:27 GMT -4
Regarding operational risks; the wikileaks people aren't just releasing everything they have wholesale - they are censoring and removing personal identification and anything they (or since their sources are presumably military personnel) their sources feel would compromise ongoing ops.
Personally, the "day to day" stuff regarding patrols in 'friendly' cities is the most interesting anyway, since that's here and when the most questionable actions are likely to happen.
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Post by echnaton on Oct 27, 2010 10:08:59 GMT -4
Julian Assange is an interesting character. An article I read recently indicate that he has pissed off about everyone in the world. His collaborators at Wikileaks say he acted hastily and with out consensus in publishing unredacted documents. He has sought refuge in Sweden where its liberal press laws might provide safety from prosecution. Only to be rebuffed by the government. He has been accused of rape and sexual molestation against by two Swedish women. He is engaged in a public battle with Wired magazine.
He seems to be abrasive enough to have alienated almost everyone. Just the type of guy that would enter into a venture designed to tweak the most powerful people in the world by publicly releasing documents that others would prefer the public not see.
The conspiracy/nwo crowd is surely just waiting for something potentially nefarious to happen before adopting him as their latest mascot. The rape charge is probably enough to get the ball rolling. It is too good of a fit. If he is jailed or dies, the torrent of unfounded accusations will be unstoppable.
The joys and sorrows of the internet age all surrounding one man.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Oct 27, 2010 12:04:33 GMT -4
They should be prosecuted for endangering US Troops and giving support (in the form of intelligence) to the enemies of the United States.
The US war effort in Iraq is the cleanest, most humane war that it's possible to fight. It is still a war, however.
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Post by echnaton on Oct 27, 2010 13:51:56 GMT -4
The US war effort in Iraq is the cleanest, most humane war that it's possible to fight. It is still a war, however. I've seen some more measured articles that agree with this. Despite the headline grabbing sensationalism, the leaked documents show the tremendous discipline and restraint of the US military and the extent of their efforts to focus on proper targets.
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Post by randombloke on Oct 27, 2010 17:34:26 GMT -4
They should be prosecuted for endangering US Troops and giving support (in the form of intelligence) to the enemies of the United States. But who do you prosecute? Foreigners aiding other foreigners is outside of any reasonable definition of treason against the USA, and the servers are certainly outside of US jurisdiction; the Wikileaks folk wouldn't have bothered if they weren't because only a very small set of people likes being interned without expectation of release. I fully expect similar protections and defences are in place for the server maintenance guys etc. so the organisation itself will be difficult to touch. So I assume you mean that the American Service Personnel that handed over this information should be tried for treason and espionage then? Because multiple tens of thousands of documents don't get stolen in daring raids on secret compounds - this is not a James Bond novel. In that case, I would assume an internal investigation is already under way, and their trials will be amusing; I can already feel the need to make an example of them fighting with the need to minimise public spectacle.
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Post by gillianren on Oct 27, 2010 18:40:16 GMT -4
Honestly, again providing the information doesn't compromise ongoing operations, I think it's our right as US citizens to know what our government and our military are doing. There are secrets which need to be kept for reasons of national security. Most of the information presented does not by any reasonable definition fit that requirement. Keeping the Manhattan Project secret was important. Any mistreatment in the Japanese internment camps should have been reported, for all most of the country probably thought they were only getting what they deserved.
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Post by echnaton on Oct 27, 2010 19:45:09 GMT -4
They should be prosecuted for endangering US Troops and giving support (in the form of intelligence) to the enemies of the United States. But who do you prosecute? I can't see how Assange could be prosecuted under any prior interpretation of American law. He had no responsibility to keep secret anything WikiLeaks published nor did he obtain the documents on American territory. But I suspect the lack of precedent won't stop the Obama administration from trying.
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Post by lionking on Oct 28, 2010 3:21:10 GMT -4
Julian Assange is an interesting character. An article I read recently indicate that he has pissed off about everyone in the world. His collaborators at Wikileaks say he acted hastily and with out consensus in publishing unredacted documents. He has sought refuge in Sweden where its liberal press laws might provide safety from prosecution. Only to be rebuffed by the government. He has been accused of rape and sexual molestation against by two Swedish women. He is engaged in a public battle with Wired magazine. He seems to be abrasive enough to have alienated almost everyone. Just the type of guy that would enter into a venture designed to tweak the most powerful people in the world by publicly releasing documents that others would prefer the public not see. The conspiracy/nwo crowd is surely just waiting for something potentially nefarious to happen before adopting him as their latest mascot. The rape charge is probably enough to get the ball rolling. It is too good of a fit. If he is jailed or dies, the torrent of unfounded accusations will be unstoppable. The joys and sorrows of the internet age all surrounding one man. He is not expected to be a clean person, especially if he works for some intelligence. The most important thing is what he provides, and when the Pentagon asks him not to put the documents on the internet, then they have credibility. As I mentioned above, Karzai admitted receiving money from Iran. Other videos and documents show violations of human rights.
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Post by lionking on Oct 28, 2010 3:22:22 GMT -4
They should be prosecuted for endangering US Troops and giving support (in the form of intelligence) to the enemies of the United States. The US war effort in Iraq is the cleanest, most humane war that it's possible to fight. It is still a war, however. I would have prefered if you called for prosecuting those who committed the violations be them Americans or Iraqis, politicians or armed forces/intelligence.
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Post by lionking on Oct 28, 2010 3:24:54 GMT -4
The US war effort in Iraq is the cleanest, most humane war that it's possible to fight. It is still a war, however. I've seen some more measured articles that agree with this. Despite the headline grabbing sensationalism, the leaked documents show the tremendous discipline and restraint of the US military and the extent of their efforts to focus on proper targets.like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=25EWUUBjPMo&feature=fvst ?
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Post by echnaton on Oct 28, 2010 9:11:37 GMT -4
He is not expected to be a clean person, especially if he works for some intelligence. Then I guess Assange meets your expectations, he certainly seems typecast for the role he plays. Does he work for some intelligence agency? That would be big news.
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Post by echnaton on Oct 28, 2010 9:17:42 GMT -4
I've seen some more measured articles that agree with this. Despite the headline grabbing sensationalism, the leaked documents show the tremendous discipline and restraint of the US military and the extent of their efforts to focus on proper targets.like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=25EWUUBjPMo&feature=fvst ? Individual incidents (even those that are grossly or outrageously in error) do not tell a full story.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Oct 28, 2010 11:19:51 GMT -4
Like I said, it's as clean and humane as a war can be, but it's still a war. War is by its nature dirty and inhumane.
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