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Post by BertL on Nov 29, 2010 12:57:38 GMT -4
"Give Jolly" doesn't work any more than "Save Merry" would have. A certain Hobbit would probably disagree with that. His name is not Jolly.
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Post by gillianren on Nov 29, 2010 14:28:58 GMT -4
Correct usage is all punctuation goes "inside the quotation marks." Internet grammar varies somewhat, and often I put punctuation outside the marks if it helps the visual look. Even leaving aside regional differences, this is assuredly untrue. If you are asking a question, there are two possibilities when it comes to where you put the question mark. It depends on whether the question mark is part of the quote or not. I also, as it happens, disagree that internet grammar is any different from real-world grammar. Nor should it be. "Helping the visual look" isn't as important as "correct."
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Post by theteacher on Nov 29, 2010 16:42:51 GMT -4
Helping the visual look" isn't as important as "correct." Agreed, and I would write "correct". Why won't you?
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Post by gillianren on Nov 29, 2010 17:19:13 GMT -4
Because the American version has the period inside the quotation marks. It is the British which does not. I am American. Technically speaking, given my home, my superfluous "U" in words like "colour" is incorrect.
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Post by Jairo on Dec 1, 2010 12:13:20 GMT -4
Hum... Would anybody say "before it comes", or "before it will come"?
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Post by gillianren on Dec 1, 2010 15:07:00 GMT -4
If I were to use either (see what I did there?), it would be "before it comes."
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Post by Jairo on Dec 2, 2010 10:09:46 GMT -4
If I were to use either (see what I did there?) A counterfactual future?
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Post by gillianren on Dec 2, 2010 14:05:14 GMT -4
Pretty much!
I currently have no reason to use either. However, I can imagine a place where I might. Thus "were." If it did happen, but there's no reason to believe it would.
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Post by Jairo on Dec 9, 2010 13:51:52 GMT -4
Gillianren, another weird question: what is the mood of modal verbs when they are used in conditional sentences?
I can think of periods with a pure past meaning, like "I could and I did". For me, it's just "can" in simple past.
But if I say "I could do this now, if you asked", is that a "can" in simple past, or past subjunctive?
Since they all look the same, and I don't quite need to know that in order to communicate, I feel this is more of an archaeological question.
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Post by gillianren on Dec 9, 2010 15:17:07 GMT -4
I think in that sentence example, "I can do this now, if you asked," would be "it is possible." "I could do this now, if you asked," would be "I don't mind doing it." It isn't the past at all. If you wanted the past tense, you would need "have" and "had." "I could have done this now, if you had asked." I realized "asked" is the past tense, and it's really more colloquial than "I could do this now, if you ask," but it is also what I think most native-speakers would understand you to have said.
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Post by Jairo on Dec 10, 2010 14:36:19 GMT -4
I think in that sentence example, "I can do this now, if you asked," would be "it is possible."
I'm confused. I didn't write that way. Was it a correction?
"I could do this now, if you asked," would be "I don't mind doing it."
I made a poor choice of examples. I meant just what was in the words, with no shades of politeness: if you ask, I can; if you don't, I can't. It'd make more sense if I had used "allow" instead of "ask".
It isn't the past at all.
Yes, I meant a counterfactual present. Yet, both verbs look like past forms. I know from grammars that the subordinate clause uses a past subjunctive, but what about the main clause? It's a past what?
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Post by gillianren on Dec 10, 2010 15:16:11 GMT -4
You didn't write it that way. I was using it as a corresponding example. But it isn't necessarily the "ask" versus "allow" (I think "let me" would be how a native speaker would phrase it) that's the issue to me. It's not politeness. It's willingness. A common bit of sarcasm on being asked if you could do something is "Well, I could . . . ."
But to be perfectly honest, it's been a long time since I learned the names of a lot of the more complicated verb forms, and I don't necessarily remember them. And, come to that, I learned at least a couple of them in Spanish class.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Dec 10, 2010 16:19:56 GMT -4
A native speaker doesn't think "oh, I better use the counterfactual present tense here". We follow the rules without knowing necessarily what the parts of speech we are using are called.
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Post by Jairo on Dec 10, 2010 17:39:06 GMT -4
Thanks for your patience, gillianren.
And Jason, I know... And I knew it'd be a rare question as even grammar books don't talk about it. But that just got me more curious. I can't help.
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Post by gillianren on Dec 10, 2010 18:00:03 GMT -4
Honestly, it both keeps me on my toes and lets me feel needed. I'm pretty much no help when it comes to science, but English, I can do.
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