Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 8, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -4
I'm suspecting they know that there is something out there, since they were watching the plane that took the photos. The thing about first contact is that once you do it, it's too late to ask if they wanted it. You can't ask them if they want contact without making it, and thus defeating the entire point of asking. I perfer the Prime Directive approach, when they are ready and start looking, then we can make contact, until then, leave well alone and let them develop in their own way. We have already destroyed enough cultures and killed enough people by exporting western vices and diseases to them. How about we just leave well enough alone this time. Leaving well enough alone means condemning these people to a pretty hard life, with little opportunity for something else. I think it should be their choice, not ours. They should determine the worth of their culture. If they prefer the things Western civilization can offer them to what they have now, who are we to say they are wrong in giving up the old ways?
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Post by lionking on Feb 8, 2011 14:08:46 GMT -4
It is a chance to study the ancient humans through them.. what are their beliefs? why didn't they evolve? what are the methods used for living and when thye get sick..? etc
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Post by chew on Feb 8, 2011 14:11:32 GMT -4
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Post by laurel on Feb 8, 2011 16:24:14 GMT -4
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Post by PhantomWolf on Feb 8, 2011 17:17:41 GMT -4
I'm suspecting they know that there is something out there, since they were watching the plane that took the photos. The thing about first contact is that once you do it, it's too late to ask if they wanted it. You can't ask them if they want contact without making it, and thus defeating the entire point of asking. I perfer the Prime Directive approach, when they are ready and start looking, then we can make contact, until then, leave well alone and let them develop in their own way. We have already destroyed enough cultures and killed enough people by exporting western vices and diseases to them. How about we just leave well enough alone this time. Leaving well enough alone means condemning these people to a pretty hard life, with little opportunity for something else. I think it should be their choice, not ours. They should determine the worth of their culture. If they prefer the things Western civilization can offer them to what they have now, who are we to say they are wrong in giving up the old ways? And contacting them could very well lead to condemning then to death from western diseases like it has so many other native peoples. Do you think they would be happier living the lifestyle they know, or dead? Western Culture might have some good things, but it also has a lot of terrible things that have destroyed native people after native people. Do you really think they would be better off if they were turned into new versions of the Inuit, Native American, or Australia Aborigine, complete with the issues of poverty, alcoholism and worse? Haven't westerners already destroyed enough cultures and peoples by their attempts at moderising and civilising them? Haven't we learned the leasons of the past at all?
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Post by randombloke on Feb 8, 2011 18:43:15 GMT -4
Seconding dis' lionking, you've said some pretty atrociously dumb stuff before, but I believe you've actually surpassed yourself with this. Or, in a word, " WHAT???"
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 8, 2011 19:11:24 GMT -4
And contacting them could very well lead to condemning then to death from western diseases like it has so many other native peoples. Do you think they would be happier living the lifestyle they know, or dead? I don't know. What do they think of their culture now? Do they feel it's stagnant, and that they are missing opportunity, or are they happy with the way things are? I would note that people decide they would be happier dead than in their current circumstances all the time, and I don't mean suicides, but people who are willing to risk their lives in order to change things in their culture. All of those native cultures were first contacted long ago. Will we make the same mistakes again? But shouldn't they have the opportunity to join the rest of the world if they wish it? If we withold contact then we are witholding the opportunity of that choice. We are chosing for them. Look at it another way. What if there is a galactic civilization that could eliminate hunger and poverty with their advanced technology, spread us to other planets (therefore encouraging the survival of our species), grant us effective immortality, and allow us to join their civilization as peers, yet they are witholding these wonders because they don't want to destroy our native culture - that terrible western civilization that you don't want to force on others. Who's decision should it be whether the advantages they offer outweigh the possibility of cultural destruction, theirs or ours?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Feb 8, 2011 19:19:17 GMT -4
I vote for leaving them alone.
What are they missing out on exactly? Global wars? Economic collapse? Paris Hilton?
Their world is small, and I bet they're perfectly happy. We'll probably be living like them once all the jobs go to India anyway.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 8, 2011 19:36:31 GMT -4
What are they missing out on exactly? Global wars? Economic collapse? Paris Hilton? Antibiotics. Vaccinations. Sanitation. Corrective lenses. Indoor plumbing and hot water. Dentistry. Pre-natal care. Artificial limbs. Modern textiles. Modern hunting techniques and gear. Pocket lighters. Waterproof tents. Literature. Etc.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Feb 8, 2011 19:39:23 GMT -4
You just listed a bunch of things they'd need full time jobs for... unless they lived in Canada.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Feb 9, 2011 0:58:56 GMT -4
You just listed a bunch of things they'd need full time jobs for... unless they lived in Canada. And? Are you agreeing with me that these things might be worth a little risk to one's current way of life?
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Post by LunarOrbit on Feb 9, 2011 1:41:18 GMT -4
I'm saying it would be a major change to their way of life, a way of life that they are probably happy with. I think it would be as difficult for them to adapt to our way of life as it would be for me to adapt to theirs.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Feb 9, 2011 1:50:27 GMT -4
I don't know. What do they think of their culture now? Do they feel it's stagnant, and that they are missing opportunity, or are they happy with the way things are? I would note that people decide they would be happier dead than in their current circumstances all the time, and I don't mean suicides, but people who are willing to risk their lives in order to change things in their culture. And if they do feel that wat, no one is stopping them wandering through the Jungle and locating other tribes that have more civilisation and learning about it. It should be their choice though. You really need to ask that? You make it sound like we want to put a fence about them and never let them out. If they want to learn about the rest of the world, they know where to find it, outside the borders of their villages. You just basically asked if I agree with Star Trek's Prime Directive.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Feb 9, 2011 1:55:24 GMT -4
Antibiotics. Vaccinations. Something they probably don't need a lot of without our diseases. They probably have better sanitation that most developing countries do. Quite possible they don't need them for the most part. Are nice to have, but over-rated And of course the candy and soda to make them need Dentristry Who says they need these things? And even if they did, how would they afford them?
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Post by gillianren on Feb 9, 2011 2:26:16 GMT -4
Does anyone know what the life expectancy there is? One assumes that without essentially every disease for which we have a vaccine, it's a lot longer than it would be upon exposure to the germs of the wider world.
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