|
Post by gillianren on Dec 21, 2011 16:15:19 GMT -4
And people who point out, "This is what the news was reporting!" have no idea how a newsroom works. At that, it's actually worse today, because the news used to go off the air. Now, every minute has to be filled, and people want new things to fill it with. What goes on the air in the first hours after a major news event is simply not as reliable as what appears in official paperwork, because reporters don't have access to that and are often the next best thing to guessing.
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Dec 22, 2011 14:40:35 GMT -4
why did the warren commission not call Jack Ruby to appear? Why am I not surprised that you haven't done your homework? Ruby did testify to the Warren Commission. His testimony is right there in the volumes. He claimed repeatedly to the police and to the Commission that he shot Oswald purely on impulse and that he had no prior knowledge of or involvement with him or anyone else in the case. The FBI and the Commission investigated the facts of Oswald's murder, Ruby's family, his friends and business dealings very thoroughly. All the facts supported Ruby's version of events. He even begged Warren to give him a polygraph exam, and Warren finally relented against his better judgment. So maybe you're talking about some other Jack Ruby (that was his legal name, not Rubenstein) than the man we saw shoot Oswald two days after the assassination? Did you know that Ruby died in Jan 1967 of lung cancer while waiting for a new trial? Did you know that shortly before he died (possibly due to the cancer) he became paranoid and utterly psychotic, convinced that a new and even larger Holocaust against Jews was underway on the other floors of the jail? Would you tend to believe anything else he might have said at that time?
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Dec 22, 2011 15:10:07 GMT -4
The answer may lie in the type of bullet used for the head shot. It was an exploding or fragmentary bullet, as it penetrates, it fragments into numerous pieces I have no explanation as the direction the blood and brain matter moved, evidence appears to support it did travel back and to the side. Well, this information is readily available from the record. You'd know it if you'd done your homework. All of the bullets and bullet fragments recovered from the victims, the limousine and the Book Depository (Oswald had one round left) were of the metal jacketed military type. (This makes perfect sense since he had a surplus Italian Army rifle.) Unlike hollow point hunting bullets they are specifically designed not to "explode" or fragment. They have been required by various international treaties governing war for over a century. (This was not really a humanitarian gesture. Consider that a wounded soldier is much more of a liability to his comrades than a dead one. Also, hard metal jacketed bullets don't foul up a gun as quickly as soft lead bullets.) Oswald's use of metal jacketed bullets explains why one could be recovered from Connally almost intact, though it was badly flattened on one side (the conspiracy fans never show you that view). Nevertheless, even with jacketed bullets, entrance wounds are small and exit wounds are usually large -- just as observed on both JFK and John Connally. Most importantly, the entrance wound on Connally's back was oval in shape, proving that the bullet had already passed through soft tissue -- JFK's neck -- before it got there. The doctors weren't there to do an autopsy on JFK. They were trying to save his life. When they gave up, they quickly left. (Remember, Jackie was standing there, watching.) Few of them even got near his head. Those who did, like Jenkins (an anesthesiologist, who traditionally stands next to the patient's head) and Clark (neurologist), have no problem with the autopsy findings. Nobody had even looked at JFK's head before Clark examined it and declared JFK dead.
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Dec 22, 2011 17:19:17 GMT -4
Oswald wasn't just the prime suspect for the Warren commission He was the ONLY suspect. That's correct, because all the evidence pointed in his direction. Remember this started as a Texas homicide investigation; JFK's assassination led to a federal law asserting federal jurisdiction over such things in the future. The Dallas police quickly zeroed in on Oswald for many very simple reasons: The number of witnesses who heard three shots coming from an upper floor of the Book Depository (this can be seen in James Altgen's famous picture); The number of Oswald's co-workers who had seen him alone on the 6th floor before the assassination; Oswald's ride that morning describing him carrying a strange package that he said were "curtain rods" -- when his roominghouse had curtains -- and behaving unusually (running ahead into the building when they arrived); Oswald's 3 co-workers on the 5th floor who heard the shots of a rifle directly over their heads; Several witnesses who saw a man with a rifle in the 6th floor corner window prior to the assassination. One witness (Howard Brennan) saw Oswald actually fire the shots, and accurately described him to the police immediately afterward; Oswald was the only employee missing from the Book Depository after the building was sealed and his supervisor asked to do a roll call; Oswald's path back to his rooming house was traced by his former landlady being on the bus he used, and by the identification of a cabdriver -- this being the first time Oswald had ever used a cab in his entire life; His suspicious behavior at the rooming house, when he ran in and out in just a few minutes after changing clothes (and, we later find, to get his revolver); The dozen or so witnesses who saw him kill Officer Tippit or flee the scene; His suspicious activity around the Texas Theater that resulted in the police being called; His attempt to murder (yes, murder) one of the officers who tried to arrest him; The recovery of his rifle from the Book Depository and the tracing of its purchase to Oswald's safe deposit box. I won't even mention Oswald's defiant behavior in custody because an American suspect can't be forced to incriminate himself. The police did bring in a second suspect (Joseph Molina) purely because he was thought to be sympathetic to Communist causes, but was quickly released when it was apparent that he had no connection to the case. So when you wonder why the investigation quickly zeroed in on Oswald, perhaps you should consider these facts. And perhaps you should read the actual history of the investigation instead of jumping to conclusions out of a personal compulsion to reject every official government history of an important event.
|
|
|
Post by gillianren on Dec 22, 2011 18:00:42 GMT -4
The other day, a conspiracist on BAUT was so clearly ignorant that he thought Oswald had gone to work on the bus. Do these people do any research other than reading conspiracy websites?
|
|
|
Post by chew on Dec 22, 2011 19:52:50 GMT -4
Oswald said during and after arrest: "I protest this police brutality" twice. "I emphatically deny these charges."
C'mon? What innocent patsy is going to say that?
He was in police custody for almost 2 days. If he knew he was being framed and by who, which some conspiracy authors claim, he would have been singing like a canary.
Ruby would have showed up too late to shoot Oswald if Oswald hadn't asked to change his sweater.
"Ruby killing Oswald had all the signs of a Mob hit." Really? Name one Mob hit that has been done inside a police station in front of 20 cops and 50 photographers, cameramen, reporters, and journalists. What mobster, when told to go kill a man in a situation like that, wouldn't have driven straight to the FBI and told them everything he knew?
|
|
|
Post by gillianren on Dec 22, 2011 20:06:12 GMT -4
Everyone knows mob hits are always at barbershops or restaurants. Don't these people watch the History Channel?
|
|
|
Post by Jason Thompson on Jan 10, 2012 15:59:06 GMT -4
Interesting that she says she hears a "terrible noise" and sees the president in distress, but does nothing. Yes, isn't it amazing how civillians unexpectedly being shot at can freeze in panic and stay down even when they see others in distress? Please provide the reference for this. The report I have read identifies a small round hole (which is larger on the inside of the skull, in keeping with the damage done by a bullet entering from that section) in the rear right of the head as the entry, and says that a lot of the right side of the head was missing as a result of the damage down by the passing/exiting bullet, which came out in the right front temple area. Yes. Provide that evidence. Don't just say it exists and expect us all to leap through your rhetorical hoops. You've been here long enough to know what is expected of you here now.
|
|
|
Post by twik on Jan 10, 2012 16:13:40 GMT -4
Hmm. Why, if the Powers That Be have altered the Zapruder film, do you also use what it *does* show as evidence?
If it's been altered by unknown people in unknown ways, it's useless as evidence for anyone's position. That includes your own.
|
|
|
Post by twik on Jan 11, 2012 17:36:08 GMT -4
Has anyone noticed the movements of Nellie Connally in the Z film? She is turned sideways facing the interior of the limo, with her back leaning against the door, that is until the last shot to the head, then she turns or is thrown forward and then ducks down. Interesting that she says she hears a "terrible noise" and sees the president in distress, but does nothing. Please explain why you find this "interesting". The film and her recollections match up. What exactly do you think she *should* have done instead? Fling her body over the President to absorb any extra shots?
|
|
|
Post by chew on Jan 12, 2012 1:00:58 GMT -4
The claims the Zapruder film has been tampered with were long ago proven to be wrong.
|
|
|
Post by chew on Jan 12, 2012 1:03:21 GMT -4
Jason Thompson the doctors in the trauma room at Parkland hospital that worked on JFK including Dr Charles Crenshaw and Dr Robert McCelland and staff, witnesses in Dealey plaza, photographers and personnel at Bethesda have sworn that the head wound was entry front right, exit back right. No witness anywhere has claimed to have seen an entry wound in JFK's head. Some said the rear of his skull was missing. The doctor who got the best look said the right side of his skull was missing. The pathologists said the right side of his skull was missing.
|
|
|
Post by chew on Jan 12, 2012 1:06:06 GMT -4
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Jan 12, 2012 2:36:29 GMT -4
Interesting that she says she hears a "terrible noise" and sees the president in distress, but does nothing. She hardly "does nothing". She saves her husband's life by grabbing him and quickly pulling both of them as far down in their seats as they can go to get out of the line of fire. She easily did more than anyone else in that limousine both to save lives and to provide testimony about what happened. No doubt you'll now find this suspicious. Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd like to see how you react when you suddenly realize someone is shooting at you.
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Jan 12, 2012 3:35:58 GMT -4
there is also an adequate amount of proof that can be substantiated to show that the z film has been altered, any comments? The Zapruder film may be the single most important photographic record of the JFK assassination, but it is hardly the only one. JFK's motorcade was a highly public event. Anybody could bring a camera and many professional and amateur photographers recorded events immediately prior to, during and immediately after the assassination. The conspirators would have had no way to know how many pictures and movies had been taken, from where, by whom, and exactly what they showed. If they had missed even one film that later turned up to contradict the others, or if their attempts had been detected, their efforts would have been discovered. And it should go without saying that the actual tampering with each and every photograph and movie film would have be done very quickly, with 1960s technology, and in a manner that would withstand intensive scrutiny by whatever forensic technologies might be developed over the following decades. Consider just the Z-film itself. Zapruder first stored the unprocessed film in his safe until he could contact reporters and authorities to arrange for processing Friday evening. It was duplicated immediately after processing and two copies were given to the Secret Service. The next morning, Zapruder negotiated print rights with Life Magazine and gave them another copy and the original. All these copies later proved identical. Not only is there no credible evidence of tampering with Zapruder's or any other film record of the assassination, but researchers have found them to be completely consistent with each other. It's also consistent with Zapruder's own verbal account given to a local TV station immediately after the assassination (and before his film was developed). Probably the most elaborate research of this kind was by Dale K. Myers. He built a comprehensive 3-D computer model of the entire assassination from every film he could get, including the Z film, and his own physical measurements of Dealy Plaza. You can read about his work at "Secrets of a Homicide", www.jfkfiles.com. Myers says he used to be a conspiracy buff, but his work convinced him that Oswald was the sole assassin and the "single bullet theory" is actually a "single bullet fact".
|
|