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Post by echnaton on Jul 9, 2011 7:22:34 GMT -4
Welcome to the board Ong. But haven't you been here before?
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ong
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Post by ong on Jul 9, 2011 12:25:26 GMT -4
Um, an agreement among two or more people to commit an illegal act, followed by at least one overt act in furtherance of that agreement even if it's legal... [/quote] [/i] Not necessarily illegal. There are all kinds of laws with all kinds of loopholes, and the second part is wrong. People can conspire, not necessarily followed by any overt act.
President FDR: "EVERYTHING in politics is a conspiracy".
You should learn something about what you're talking about before you do your kindergarten mocking act that they encourage people to do in lieu of thinking.
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ong
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Post by ong on Jul 9, 2011 12:36:34 GMT -4
Welcome to the board Ong. But haven't you been here before? Thanks, but I don't really know. My Bookmarks are a bit jumbled. I have popped into the BAUTF Bad Astronomers, or whatever they call themselves now, forum every now and then, on rare occasions, and I've got you listed under them. Are you connected? I'm an Apollo Mission agnostic, inclined to believe that they really went but they're keeping an awful lot of it secret. My specialty, however, is exposing the 911 false flag operation hoax. Of course I am also interested in the crazy scam they are running with that Kenyan or whatever the hell it is that they've installed in the White House following their mock election, Barry Soetoro aka Barry Dunham aka Barak Hussein Obama, etc. "Truthers" and "Birthers" to you. They put glib little Newspeak labels on things. Helps keep the proles from tiring out their poor little dumbed down brains trying to think, when they could be spending quality time watching tv and eating more junk food.
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Post by blackstar on Jul 9, 2011 12:38:43 GMT -4
Um, an agreement among two or more people to commit an illegal act, followed by at least one overt act in furtherance of that agreement even if it's legal...
[/i] Not necessarily illegal. There are all kinds of laws with all kinds of loopholes, and the second part is wrong. People can conspire, not necessarily followed by any overt act. President FDR: "EVERYTHING in politics is a conspiracy".You should learn something about what you're talking about before you do your kindergarten mocking act that they encourage people to do in lieu of thinking.[/quote] Well all you've done so far is argue the definition of the word conspiracy, do you have anything to offer by way of a reason to take the likes of the 'truthers' seriously?
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Post by blackstar on Jul 9, 2011 12:43:10 GMT -4
Welcome to the board Ong. But haven't you been here before? Thanks, but I don't really know. My Bookmarks are a bit jumbled. I have popped into the BAUTF Bad Astronomers, or whatever they call themselves now, forum every now and then, on rare occasions, and I've got you listed under them. Are you connected? I'm an Apollo Mission agnostic, inclined to believe that they really went but they're keeping an awful lot of it secret. My specialty, however, is exposing the 911 false flag operation hoax. Of course I am also interested in the crazy scam they are running with that Kenyan or whatever the hell it is that they've installed in the White House following their mock election, Barry Soetoro aka Barry Dunham aka Barak Hussein Obama, etc. "Truthers" and "Birthers" to you. They put glib little Newspeak labels on things. Helps keep the proles from tiring out their poor little dumbed down brains trying to think, when they could be spending quality time watching tv and eating more junk food. I beleive 'truthers' is a self applied label, as for the rest of it, well let's say I don't think its the rest of us having trouble with critical thinking.
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ong
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Post by ong on Jul 9, 2011 12:51:04 GMT -4
I beleive 'truthers' is a self applied label, as for the rest of it, well let's say I don't think its the rest of us having trouble with critical thinking.[/quote]
No, I don't think so. They always patch their newspeak labels and handy little catch phrases on to things that the prolish canon fodder is not encouraged to think about.
Yes, you would feel that way - tho in fairness I just popped in and saw the usual kindergarten nonsense being bandied about.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 9, 2011 12:56:46 GMT -4
"Truthers" is a self-applied label. Whether you think so or not is up to you.
I've just finished reading Among the Truthers, as it happens, and it raises some valid points. Such as that there's occasionally tiny grains of truth to the conspiracy theories, but that the conspiracy theorists don't much care about logic. Or evidence. And that they're more interested in bashing those who oppose them than in really investigating the facts, because they believe they already know the Truth. What are facts to that?
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Post by ong on Jul 9, 2011 13:24:36 GMT -4
Well all you've done so far is argue the definition of the word conspiracy, do you have anything to offer by way of a reason to take the likes of the 'truthers' seriously?[/quote] [/i] No, I'm not going to put the time and effort here to start at square one all over again, here with individuals who likely have the predisposition to chant slogans and call names and make themselves annoying, but correct me if I'm wrong, but I've had a lot of experience with this. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. People are largely herd animals. Most will just parrot whatever they are told to parrot by whatever is in power at any given point in time. There are many online resources to learn about 911. Here's one you can start with, Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth cms.ae911truth.org/It's membership includes over 1,500 verified architectural and engineering professionals plus over 12,400 other supporters. If you have any specific questions about what you see there, or deem anything that you see there fallacious, you can run it by me. My goal is to find out the truth about everything, especially things that they don't want you to find out the truth about. And if I'm wrong about anything I will be the first to admit it. And here's Doctor Alan Sabrosky, former director of the US Army War College, Jewish himself, talking about the Israeli connection to 911. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKGRB3cygg&feature=player_embedded#at=291
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Post by tedward on Jul 9, 2011 13:29:10 GMT -4
Better start finding a good glazier.
Edit. Should have referenced this "Most will just parrot whatever they are told to parrot by whatever is in power at any given point in time."
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 9, 2011 13:46:49 GMT -4
No, I'm not going to put the time and effort here to start at square one all over again, here with individuals who likely have the predisposition to chant slogans and call names and make themselves annoying. I'm certainly not going to put in the time and effort to start at square one by reading the gutter trash that comes from the 9/11 truth organisation. Heard it all, seen it all and believe none of it. It's another conspiracy theory in a long line of conspiracy theories. It is the singly most uninteresting conspiracy of all, and the most deplorable and shocking since people are making money and promoting their egos from the death of several thousand people. If 9/11 truth is really about justice for those people, then I really do hope the products at the 'store' are not being sold for profit of any kind? It is nothing more than profiteering at the expense of the dead. That makes it repugnant, disgusting, loathsome and utterly offensive. I've got no time for it, and zero tolerance. I believe the offical story, and if that makes me another 'sheeple' or a 'heard animal' in your eyes, then I'll wear that label. I'd rather wear it than lower myself in an orgy of self promotion, ego pumping, and mocking the dead with a pile of pseudo-scientific nonsense. The 911 truth organsation laughs in the face of the dead, and I'd tell each and everyone of its followers to their face. Make no mistake of that. Oddly, looking at your posts, you have eluded to people here being mocking and name calling. The only person that has done that so far is you ong. You really ought to back up your morals by setting the example that you want us to follow.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 9, 2011 14:04:48 GMT -4
You know, I've heard the claims of the Truthers, and they don't make sense. What's more, as the book points out, they don't have a narrative. They have claims about who did it, mostly based on motive, but they don't have anything like an explanation of how it could have been done that fits with, you know, physics. They just claim that I must accept the official story because it's what the Government told me, despite the fact that I said in this very thread that I wasn't happy with the administration in power at the time. I do believe the Bush administration lied to me--because they did--but it does not then follow that 9/11 was an inside job. One of the great failings of conspiracy theorists is a lack of understanding of "shades of grey."
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 9, 2011 14:29:38 GMT -4
They have claims about who did it, mostly based on motive, but they don't have anything like an explanation of how it could have been done that fits with, you know, physics. Yes, that small problem that gets in the way of Apollo and 9/11 conspiracies. Physics. I do believe the Bush administration lied to me--because they did--but it does not then follow that 9/11 was an inside job. Exactly. An argument that I often hear from Apollo CTers is 'yes, but governments do lie. Do you always believe your government?' I would not call it lying, but I would say they are liberal with the truth at times - shades of grey is a good phrase. They massage the unemployment figures, they change the rules for counting crime statistics, they make illegal expenses claims, they protect their backsides by lying during TV invterviews, they sidestep and dodge questions. It does not mean that Apollo was a fraud and 9/11 was an inside job. Lies have been told by governments since humans first ruled by collectives. It is the nature of power. But the scaling required to escalate the 'lies' typical of most governments, to a sinister and nefarious plot to defraud mankind defies logic. I don't buy into it.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 9, 2011 14:33:50 GMT -4
Conspiracies always fall apart. History teaches us this. If you really look into things like Iran-Contra and Watergate, you realize that conspiracies fall apart quite quickly. And yet, if you believe a lot of these people, some of these conspiracies have lasted literally thousands of years.
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Post by ong on Jul 9, 2011 14:36:21 GMT -4
"I'm certainly not going to put in the time and effort to start at square one by reading the gutter trash bla bla"Always the same. Name calling and cursing and pathetic attempts at ad hominem attacks. Like I said, I had a pretty good idea of what I stumbled into when I noticed all the "Liars" (as opposed to us "Truthers", eh?) going on to each other with their kindergarten babble. That's why I said I'm not willing to be bothered starting at square one with people with neither the ability nor the inclination for honest analytical thought. I know what I'm dealing with. I've had a lot of experience with this. There is not a one of them who can defend the official 911 cover story in honest polite point by point debate. I have never encountered even one. And since you brought it up too, that would go for their mock president and his blatantly forged birth certificates and no known history (and his disbarred lawyer wife, too) as well. OK, carry on, Liars. Sorry to interrupt your kindergarten play time. In case there are any intelligent and honest people looking in, here are some 911 truth groups: PILOTS FOR 911 TRUTH: pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/SCIENTISTS FOR 911 TRUTH: www.scientistsfor911truth.org/US MILITARY OFFICERS FOR 911 TRUTH: www.militaryofficersfor911truth.org/ACTORS AND ARTISTS FOR 911 TRUTH: www.actorsandartistsfor911truth.org/ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS FOR 911 TRUTH: www.ae911truth.org/FIREFIGHTERS FOR 911 TRUTH firefightersfor911truth.org/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS FOR 911 TRUTH mp911truth.orgSCHOLARS FOR 911 TRUTH 911scholars.orgVETERANS FOR 911 TRUTH v911t.orgLAWYERS FOR 911 TRUTH l911t.comRELIGIOUS LEADERS FOR 911 TRUTH rl911truth.org
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Post by gillianren on Jul 9, 2011 14:41:31 GMT -4
Yeah, except most of those groups are the real liars. They lie about their qualifications. They lie about what really happened that day. They lie about what the reports indicate. They lie about all kinds of things--and you're buying into it. You're buying into the idea that "truther" is an accurate term, even though you claim it's the one others have given them. It's not true, and you yourself have put your finger on why none of us would be so foolish as to have done it. What they have isn't the truth, never was, never will be. The truth is, it doesn't take a complicated explanation. You just don't want to believe the simple one.
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