|
Post by twik on Jul 8, 2011 11:19:46 GMT -4
Stutefish Patients who "look like Borman" with diarrhea, vomiting, chills get interrogated big time regardless of "familiarity". Some cases of infectious diarrhea must be reported to the local board of public health for obvious reasons. This is fairly significant stuff. Willikers. You know, I've had exactly the same symptoms as Borman reported, and never even went to a doctor. If I had, I'm pretty sure it would have gone something like this: "So, you had a few hours of intestinal distress and threw up a couple of times. How are you feeling now?"
"Pretty much better."
"Then why are you here? Get out of here, and stop wasting the taxpayers' money. Don't come back until you have something seriously wrong with you."The symptoms reported by Borman were entirely trivial, except for their setting. And since there was little that could be done at that point, other than take whatever passes for Space PeptoBismol, why would you expect the doctor to have spent hours questioning him about them?
|
|
|
Post by PeterB on Jul 8, 2011 12:33:36 GMT -4
Stutefish Patients who "look like Borman" with diarrhea, vomiting, chills get interrogated big time regardless of "familiarity". Some cases of infectious diarrhea must be reported to the local board of public health for obvious reasons. This is fairly significant stuff. What sort of assessment and recommendations would you give to a person who told you they’d had D&V yesterday, but they’re feeling better now? Edit to add: I see Twik has asked pretty much the same question as me.
|
|
|
Post by stutefish on Jul 8, 2011 18:10:50 GMT -4
Stutefish Patients who "look like Borman" with diarrhea, vomiting, chills get interrogated big time regardless of "familiarity". Some cases of infectious diarrhea must be reported to the local board of public health for obvious reasons. This is fairly significant stuff. fattydash, you miss my point. I'm not suggesting Borman wasn't interrogated. I'm suggesting that not only was Borman interrogated, but that most of the interrogation had already taken place. What specific question do you think the doctor should have asked?
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Jul 9, 2011 3:16:49 GMT -4
The fact that Bormann, Anders and Lovell were half way to the moon is not the same as a public outbreak of a norovirus on Earth. Two different situations and two different courses of action. Right. Among other things, the three of them were already in one of the most effective quarantines ever devised. Now if the flight surgeons had notified the Public Health department as fattydash insists, I'm sure the latter would have been just fine with keeping them in space for the remainder of a nominal mission. Why bring them back early when they might still be contagious...?
|
|
|
Post by drewid on Jul 9, 2011 3:58:15 GMT -4
Why would having D+V, but continuing with the mission, point to fakerey?
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 9, 2011 4:11:31 GMT -4
Now if the flight surgeons had notified the Public Health department as fattydash insists, I'm sure the latter would have been just fine with keeping them in space for the remainder of a nominal mission. Why bring them back early when they might still be contagious...? You can imagine the conversation: Flight Director: We have three astronauts, half way to the moon. One has D and V. What do we do? Public Health: Uggghh. Keep them in space, away from the general population here on Earth. It will prevent a public outbreak. Flight Director: OK. They will be back in a few days after they've swung around the moon in a vehicle that was developed as part of a $13 billion programme. Public Health: A first for mankind then? Flight Director: Yes. Public Health: Eveyone is happy then. Flight Director: Apart from Anders and Lovell, who are cleaning up the inside of the CM with baby wipes. They'll get over it, once they see the far side of the moon.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 9, 2011 4:11:51 GMT -4
Why would having D+V, but continuing with the mission, point to fakerey? Escapes me.
|
|
|
Post by tedward on Jul 9, 2011 4:21:15 GMT -4
His method to tarnish the flight is already in tatters.
First up as already mentioned by others, if you are going to fake it and risk it further then why introduce something that is suspect such as a very contagious (fattydash stance without a diagnoses) illness. Far better to say they did not get anything apart from a little space sickness. That way doctors not associated with the program would have no reason to think anything is untoward especially as the info is now out there.
Reason for this post, I expect (maybe incorrectly) that there are people far more qualified than fattdash out there, rather than boast he has contacted Mr Armstrong (why not people more associated with 8 if they are still alive?) and suggest that we are not as diligent for not doing so, if he is in the medical profession then there in lies a route for him to expose the issue with his peers and make contact with them. Open session somewhere where peoples bona fides are in the open and on the table.
For one thing I have increased my knowledge a tad more especially when the more knowledgeable answer. Seems to happen every time a claim is made, sends you off in the route of that claim and hey presto, they still landed.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 9, 2011 5:34:13 GMT -4
First up as already mentioned by others, if you are going to fake it and risk it further then why introduce something that is suspect such as a very contagious (fattydash stance without a diagnoses) illness. Far better to say they did not get anything apart from a little space sickness. That way doctors not associated with the program would have no reason to think anything is untoward especially as the info is now out there. The problem with any logical explanation for carrying out a hoax, is that the CTers live in a parallel fantasy land and will invent any old story to counter your point. Their energy for it is boundless. The argument would be that they gave Bormann an illness to make it look as though normal things were happening otherwise it would have all been too perfect. Of course, you make the point that by not having anyone ill, means the doctors with the programme have no reason to think anything untoward is happening. If I were hoaxing it, then that would be my course of action, 'Move along, nothing to see.' Even writing this makes me realise how difficult it would be to pull the hoax off. Keep one person out of the loop, and you have to bring more people into the loop to fabricate a different story. As Gillianren say, it fails on logic alone. You just cannot keep all those people quiet and balance all the lies. If I think about the absurdity of it all, I find myself showing increasing derision, disdain and utter contempt for conspiracy theorists. I find the 9/11 conspiracy the most sickening of all. That one really makes me quite cross. Is there an island somewhere in the Pacific where they can be transported? It would be like Lord of the Flies, a wonderful social experiment.
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Jul 9, 2011 5:59:27 GMT -4
During the mission I suspect that the news media did begin to "think conspiratorially", to coin a phrase, if only because of the guarded nature of the crew's comments hinting at Borman's illness and their puzzling request to "check the quality of the voice tape". Watergate was still a few years away but I'm sure a few reporters' eyebrows went up when the audio feed to the media was cut so the crew and surgeons could have a private medical conference.
But no sooner had the charade begun when the PAO (Public Affairs Officer) spilled the beans. Check the transcript (the one that includes the PAO comments). I might be wrong, but I sure didn't get the impression that the Flight Director and Surgeon had explicitly authorized the PAO to fill us in, and I still wonder if he caught any flak over that.
I was reminded of one of my favorite types of sight gags from the old 1960s Batman TV show: a big outdoor sign reading Catwoman's Secret Lair! Right Here!
|
|
Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
|
Post by Al Johnston on Jul 9, 2011 10:25:49 GMT -4
Or indeed: ;D
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 9, 2011 15:37:48 GMT -4
That reminds me of the BBC drama Threads. I always remember the scene in the bunker when the Soviets attacked. Now, Cold War civil defence, that was carefully managed information, and what would happen it the war went hot.
|
|
Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
|
Post by Al Johnston on Jul 9, 2011 18:45:37 GMT -4
Yes, certainly by the 80s any attempt to preserve or assist the civilian population at large in such an event had largely been given up as futile. I recall one Jasper Carrott routine where he quoted an official document:
"'The aim of war planning is to preserve the great trees and not the forest'. And who's the forest? I'm looking at it..."
|
|
|
Post by ka9q on Jul 9, 2011 23:39:46 GMT -4
Or indeed: ;D Is that a real photo? If so, I take it refers to an actual Cold War site of some sort that is now a museum?
|
|
|
Post by chrlz on Jul 10, 2011 1:25:09 GMT -4
It's a real photo of a real place. It's just not a secret anymore...
|
|