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Post by scooter on Jul 7, 2011 0:49:54 GMT -4
...an astronaut, in an unofficial capacity, said that. How many other astronauts made the same claim? Let me guess...none, because they got the memo not to contradict Armstrong.
Really? What about the rocks? The tracking by the Soviets? The visual sightings/photographs by amature astronomers? All of the science? The reflectors? What about Launch Complex 39? It sure has functioned well since being created as a Hollywood set.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 7, 2011 0:59:54 GMT -4
What about the reflectors? Why did they have so much trouble targeting the reflector that night/morning, 07/20/1969? They shot the lasers at the reflector right away. Why wasn't there a report, a reflection? Why did it take so long to locate Tranquility base? If they tracked the Eagle so well, why didn't they know precisely where the Eagle had landed on that eveing?
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Post by scooter on Jul 7, 2011 1:26:55 GMT -4
Were they shooting lasers that early?
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Post by Count Zero on Jul 7, 2011 1:30:03 GMT -4
" "Where were the stars?" the myth believers then asked. The cameras that NASA sent to the moon had to use short exposure times to take pictures of the bright lunar surface and the moonwalkers' white spacesuits. Stars' images, easily seen by the moonwalkers, were too faint and underexposed to be seen as they are in photographs taken from space shuttles and the International Space Station. " You say that this quote is "Per astronaut Shepard and Slayton, Head of Astronaut Selection;" but this cannot be correct. Slayton died in 1993, and Shepard in 1998 four months before the first ISS module was launched. Furthermore, "Moonshot" was published in 1994, and has only been re-released this year. Thus the quote mentioning the ISS must therefore be from the 2011 edition, and thus written by Barbree without any possible oversight or correction by men who had died in the previous century. It is as I suspected: The professional writer who had never flown in space created this quote from "artistic licence". We can tell that this is artistic licence because we can tell from direct, personal experience how much light the atmosphere blocks, and therefore know that stars would not be seen by astronauts whose eyes were not dark-adapted.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 7, 2011 1:31:51 GMT -4
For Scooter, no one got any such memo. Armstrong's own Apollo 11 colleague Aldrin contradicted the original no stars line. In Aldrin's 2009 memoir "Magnificent Desolation", on page 8-9, Aldrin says there is no night in cislunar space. It is always day and one sees millions of stars.
So no, it is not unique, others contradicting Armstrong's original line.
So how about that contradiction? Back in 1969 the story was no stars in cislunar space, at least not until they got to the dark side of the moon and photographed the corona, but that was 4 days into the mission. Yet, now we read from Aldrin, there were millions of stars. What gives?
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Post by fattydash on Jul 7, 2011 1:34:55 GMT -4
I find it odd that Armstrong would so strongly endorse such a book just written on the fly by a writer without oversight. I would not put my name on such a book, endorsing it so strongly as Armstrong does, and I imagine former astronaut Armstrong would be a far more cautious individual than me when it comes to such matters.
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Post by Data Cable on Jul 7, 2011 1:41:47 GMT -4
I think the citation datacable requested is one that shows Collins actually said what you are claiming he said. You are correct sir. Assume the thing is fake. How would Collins answer the question, "So Mike, did you see the Southern Cross? What did Venus look like? Did you try and photograph Venus? Al Shepard did photograph Venus, nine times.
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Post by Count Zero on Jul 7, 2011 1:42:14 GMT -4
...the point is, one would expect to see lots of stars. If they had such an expectation, it would be wrong. Simple relative and imperical measurements prove that they would not. Not the ones who have done the math. I remember my dad explaining to me at the time of the Apollo missions why paintings that depicted stars above the sunlit Moon were wrong. I told you before: "Easier" and "more easily" do not mean "easy". They are not even close to the same meaning. Why do you have such a hard time understanding this? Such expectation is not valid. Deal with it.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 7, 2011 1:43:38 GMT -4
For scooter, They shot the lasers right away. There were reporters at Lick Observatory on 07/20/1969 ready to report the Eagle had been found, and found most precisely. But alas, it was not until August after trying many times each day for many days that they "found" Tranquility Base. What a drag to have been given that asignment as a journalist, go hang out at Lick Observatory and the thing never happened. Oh well.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 7, 2011 1:46:49 GMT -4
I am not sure what I am supposed to deal with. I'll just stick with the language of the astronauts, verbatim, "Stars' images, easily seen...." Fine with me.
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Post by Count Zero on Jul 7, 2011 1:53:20 GMT -4
I find it odd that Armstrong would so strongly endorse such a book just written on the fly by a writer without oversight. He didn't. He endorsed the 1994 edition that did not have this quote, and was published with Shepard's blessing. The introduction was reprinted in the new edition, and Armstrong had no say over that. Furthermore, I doubt seriously that he cares. He knows better than most how much inaccurate information about space is out there. He also knows that if people really want to find out the facts, they can do so without his help. He did his time as a teacher. He's got better ways to spend his twilight years.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 7, 2011 1:58:01 GMT -4
I have an ebook copy of "Moon Shot", and I have a hard bound original edition copy of "Moon Shot". They both have a Neil Armstrong introduction and both of my versions feature the quote given. I believe I am utterly confused. What exactly is the point here? I am to believe the books I have really do not have a Neil Armstrong introduction. I am lost.
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Post by Count Zero on Jul 7, 2011 1:58:42 GMT -4
I am not sure what I am supposed to deal with. I'll just stick with the language of the astronauts, verbatim, "Stars' images, easily seen...." Fine with me. That's not the language of the astronauts, verbatim. That's the language of a professional writer, long after his collaborators are dead. Any attempt to construe the quote "Stars images, easily seen..." as coming from either Shepard or Slayton ignores the facts at best, and is dishonest at worst.
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Post by scooter on Jul 7, 2011 2:01:14 GMT -4
I am not sure what I am supposed to deal with. I'll just stick with the language of the astronauts, verbatim, "Stars' images, easily seen...." Fine with me. see post#63...CZ nailed it.
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Post by scooter on Jul 7, 2011 2:05:01 GMT -4
For scooter, They shot the lasers right away. There were reporters at Lick Observatory on 07/20/1969 ready to report the Eagle had been found, and found most precisely. But alas, it was not until August after trying many times each day for many days that they "found" Tranquility Base. What a drag to have been given that asignment as a journalist, go hang out at Lick Observatory and the thing never happened. Oh well. ...and so it goes. Mike Collins never saw them either, through his magnifying optics from his 60 mile high orbit.
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