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Post by tedward on Jul 8, 2011 17:59:46 GMT -4
You going to answer the questions in the other threads or play the stuck record?
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 8, 2011 18:00:38 GMT -4
And yet, for the most part, they're all doing fine. Buzz had some problems, but on your psych rotation, if you're a doctor, you must have learned that these things happen, especially given that Buzz realistically had no more worlds to conquer post-Apollo. I mean, how do you top that? That's only basic human psychology, which any real doctor would understand. That is such a good point that many of the hoax crowd forget. I've seen much mocking of Buzz for his problems. How do you top walking on the Moon? That is a pretty hard come down. While not walking on the Moon, I remember when the England team won the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Most of the players retired, and many were dropped in readiness to rebuild the squad. There was nowhere for those players to go. Those that retired were at then end of their careers anyway, and those that were dropped had achieved the ultimate glory so were probably not going to be driven to carry on. Only the players in their mid-20s carried on, and even then, some of them lost the relish for the fight of test match rugby and were soon dropped.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 8, 2011 18:02:18 GMT -4
I do not believe the astronauts are heros to all. I suggested it bothers some people who do view the astronauts so when HB type criticize Apollo. I also suggested that it seemed to me it bothered some that I might respect Neil Armstrong. Please review the other posts to me in this thread. I suggest most will find my statements reasonable based on that which has already appeared here.
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Post by laurel on Jul 8, 2011 18:03:03 GMT -4
I respect the Apollo official story advocate perspective. You should use a smiley when you make jokes. Just so there's no confusion.
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Post by laurel on Jul 8, 2011 18:07:06 GMT -4
Fattydash, how extensive was this fraud that you think Armstrong participated in? Do you believe that the Gemini flight on which he almost died was part of the fraud?
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Post by fattydash on Jul 8, 2011 18:08:43 GMT -4
I have never knocked Buzz Aldrin personally. I wrote to him once and I would imagine he viewed what I wrote as positive, though I do not know that for a fact.
I do suggest Aldrin participated in a fraud, a fraud many of us would probably view as reasonably well justified were we to know all of the facts.
In Buzz's case I am neutral on his character. I know he has struggled in life, drinking and so forth. He seems good humored, sort of gregarious, obviously accessible, proud in a good way, by that I mean not vain. That is what I think of Buzz. Not much admittedly, have not read much about him, never seen him speak except on tv.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 8, 2011 18:12:51 GMT -4
So Lurel,
I will mention this one more time just to be sure you do not think I am ignoring your posts altogether. If you wish to discuss the facts of Gemini with me, please do so in an another post. I would be happy to. I personally will not entertain "questions" posed to me here that deal with the material facts of the Apollo and other space programs.
If anyone knows what the theme of this thread is, it should be me. I started it. I encourage others to stay on topic.
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Post by laurel on Jul 8, 2011 18:15:26 GMT -4
You said Armstrong participated in a fraud. I'm asking how extensive you believe the fraud was. How is that off-topic?
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 8, 2011 18:16:02 GMT -4
I note Jay Utah "returned". I do not know Jay, but see his return was a bit of a minor event, and am pleased my thread interested Jay enough to make an appearance.I don't know Jay either, but what I do know is that he has done more than most to dig through the piles of happy horse manure that conspiracy theorists have dumped on the floor of humanity. I also know that he explained at another forum that he does not want to be defined by his Apollo interests. I also know that he is highly patient, and has been in the face of a pretty nasty hate campaign aimed at him. If I were him, I would have consulted a solicitor by now, and taken a particular individual to task for defamation of character. He has also stepped away from this arena to concentrate on other matters. I have exchanged a few emails with Jay, but since he stepped back I have given him a clean berth out of respect. I suggest you cut the tabloid sensationalism regarding the appearance of Jay, and offer him the room and space that he has given himself. I hope you are not attempting to drag him into an argument when you have no understanding for the reasons he has stepped away from this forum. I respect the Apollo official story advocate perspective. No you don't. You have no respect for what it took to achieve Apollo. If this thread is going to be effective with regard to its original intention, helping us understand the dynamic of the personal conflict that so readily arises in our forum.It's not about personal conflict. It's about you denigrating achievements based on hogwash, handwaving, sidestepping and ignoring facts that have been carefully explained to you. Please, try to understand that point. It is you that is making it personal.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 8, 2011 18:18:50 GMT -4
It wasn't sensationalism, I do not know the guy. I just mentioned what I did because others responded in a way to his appearance here as though he were a person of significant ability and character. Of course I meant no disrespect and would apologize to Jay and others if that post of mine mentioning him suggested that. Sorry.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 8, 2011 18:20:26 GMT -4
For Luke,
Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by blackstar on Jul 8, 2011 18:23:48 GMT -4
I do not believe the astronauts are heros to all. I suggested it bothers some people who do view the astronauts so when HB type criticize Apollo. I also suggested that it seemed to me it bothered some that I might respect Neil Armstrong. What bothers people is the hypocrisy of claiming to respect him while saying he has lied about Apollo and participated in a fraud. If that's your definition of respect you need a new dictionary. And like your other suggestions this one is completely wrong.
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Post by blackstar on Jul 8, 2011 18:27:16 GMT -4
And referencing back to BAUT let's not forget the two faced approach of pretending to be the voice of reasonable doubt as DoctorTea followed by wild denunciations as MaryB. And has any else noted the lack of denials that these and the 'chess club' were simply his alter egos?
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Post by lukepemberton on Jul 8, 2011 18:28:58 GMT -4
It wasn't sensationalism, I do not know the guy. I just mentioned what I did because others responded in a way to his appearance here as though he were a person of significant ability and character. Of course I meant no disrespect and would apologize to Jay and others if that post of mine mentioning him suggested that. Sorry. I suggest calling Jay's appearance a 'minor event' is sensationalism, particularly given how you claim you do not know him. Why bother mentioning his appearance and calling it a minor event at all? My personal view is that while you may not know him personally, you know of his standing in this community. I also think you writing about his apperance is a ploy to 'smoke him out' and get him to react. I think you like controversy, and do so to get a rise out of people. Those are my personal views. If I am wrong then I apologise. Either way, you should leave Jay out of the argument.
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Post by fattydash on Jul 8, 2011 18:29:16 GMT -4
Blackstar, in your life, when you have lied, you have justified it internally for this or that reason. This is my point. Armstrong may have good reason, very good reason.
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