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Post by echnaton on Aug 9, 2011 13:47:07 GMT -4
I find all this gossiping about Jarrah White to be a bit unseemly. I take your point. I know that I lead the discussion sometimes, so I am sorry for being unseemly. His name can be like a red rag to a bull with me. I think the veiled threat to hunt me down has something to do with it, or maybe his bosom buddy accusing me of being a pedophile, or maybe the false DMCA claims against me, or publicly stating that my colleagues should place a restraining order against me. Of course, it was all done from the safety of his YouTube channel. It tends to irk. Maybe I should be more Jay-esque about it, but I'm a little bit abrasive in character when rattled. I think it has something to do with playing front row rugby union. I'm not one to back down easily. Seriously though, it does concern me that the moon hoax movement is attracting some real nuts; and one day someone will get hurt. It is becoming more about hate now than anything else. Spend some time looking at YouTube comments on the subject, and it really is quite alarming. I understand your frustration too. I think that sticking more closely to the the hoax discussion rather than discussing the hoaxers will be more effective in bringing new hoaxers here to present their views. The more HBs that come here the more that we can debunk and the more opportunities there are for those that are newly exposed to a hoax theory to learn about the reality of Apollo.
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Post by photobuster919 on Aug 9, 2011 15:47:48 GMT -4
Maybe he is known to the Sydney physics student community. Has he been making a pest of himself I wonder? Has he been sitting in on lectures, and considers it a route to his BSc? After all, he follows Ralph Rene, an eminent self taught physicist himself. He mmight be studying units at diploma level. That is a possibility. Having said this, I have never heard of astrophysics being taught at diploma level. The plot thickens. Well Jarrah did before that he was attending astrophysics lectures since he was 9 years old, so if thats the case he could probably claim he has been doing a "BSc" his whole life. Unfortunately for Jarrah his gameplay will get him no where. To earn an astrophysics degree he must have the entry requirements for admission to university and once enrolled he would need to dedicate a considerable amount of time to studying. That study time would more than likely take away from the time he could spend making his MoonFaker series. It would take years of study and consistent dedication for Jarrah to earn that degree. But only time will tell if he has that dedication and the desire to learn from the lecturers and other experts within the field of astrophysics.
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Post by ka9q on Aug 9, 2011 17:22:25 GMT -4
It should also be said that you appear to be pigeon-holing all lawyers/solicitors as "trial lawyers" and ignoring the vast majority whose jobs involve navigating normal members of the community through the vast legal minefields of divorce, property purchase, wills and probate, etc.. Point taken. You're right. It's just that trial lawyers are the most visible and I've seen more than my share in recent years (patent cases).
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Post by ka9q on Aug 9, 2011 17:36:08 GMT -4
On item I noticed about this comparison. You equate the job of an individual (an attorney) with a process of the work of many people that takes place over time (science). Individual scientist are as capable as attorneys or any of us of advocating for an unproven idea or representing a client who pays us. [...] Precisely. That's why science is really a process as opposed to a collection of theories or even a group of people with a certain training. As I said, it's a process designed to withstand the imperfections of individual humans. You're absolutely right that it can take a long time and go off on some big tangents before eventually arriving at the truth. Especially when individual scientists are strongly biased, paid guns, or even outright frauds. But the system does work in the long run. Some people believe there's a textbook for the universe with all the answers in the back, but long experience shows otherwise. We have to write the textbook ourselves, and science is the only workable method we have to get right the chapters about the physical laws by which the universe operates. (It leaves to others the chapters on "why" and "what for".)
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 9, 2011 17:58:07 GMT -4
I've given this some thought on the way to supermarket and back, and think it might be a good idea to leave this thread where it is now. echnaton is correct. The original intent of the thread is exhausted, and the discussions have entered into gossip and speculation. I'm probably the most guilty of this. Time to leave his nibs alone and give him the obscurity he richly deserves.
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Post by Obviousman on Aug 10, 2011 2:28:21 GMT -4
I'd even go so far as to say it should be closed.
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Post by Vincent McConnell on Aug 10, 2011 6:26:01 GMT -4
The hoax theory is really dying. Back in 2002, all these hoaxers were on the television, giving their views, making documentaries and writing books. Not sure what ended it, but I think a lot of today's youth was convinced by MythBusters (Which as an Apollo Believer, I think wasn't a very good special).
Jarrah is the only real light of the hoax community. I'm sure if something were to happen to or with him, the hoax theory would drift away in the wind, never to be heard from again.
While I recently began supporting Apollo, I still consider Jarrah White a good friend of mine. Several claims lately is that he will commit suicide in the near future. I truly hope nothing happens to him, but he's 31 years old now. It won't be long until he won't be hoaxing anymore. And when Jarrah stops hoaxing, the theory just dies... That's the way it is.
So like I said, I hope with all my heart that Jarrah doesn't commit suicide, but Ralph Rene did just that. I'm sure Rene's suicide was much, much more than just physical pain. It was a longing and nagging burden that he knew they went to the moon and he couldn't live with his own claims anymore... Nobody eats a shotgun because they're in pain.
Anyway, my take.
-Vincent
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Post by coelacanth on Aug 10, 2011 7:14:07 GMT -4
So like I said, I hope with all my heart that Jarrah doesn't commit suicide, but Ralph Rene did just that. I'm sure Rene's suicide was much, much more than just physical pain. It was a longing and nagging burden that he knew they went to the moon and he couldn't live with his own claims anymore... Nobody eats a shotgun because they're in pain. Apparently not - a quick Google, and I find it revealed that this Rene fellow did not kill himself, but rather was murdered by the CIA Anyway, looks like this fellow had quite a few rather creative endeavors going. Apparently for the low low price of $14 I can discover why the value of pi is really 3.146264. I think I will somehow manage to live without that knowledge ...
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Post by JayUtah on Aug 10, 2011 11:08:12 GMT -4
It's really rather presumptive to assume Rene's suicide had anything to do with his hoax claims. Most of us have personal and social lives that have little or nothing to do with what we write here, and those factors are just as apt -- perhaps more so -- to lead to suicide.
My last involvement with Rene was while helping produce a pilot for a History Channel series. Rene at that time seemed to show signs I would associate with paranoia. I don't believe he was mentally healthy during the two years or so leading up to his death. But I have no evidence at all that whatever mental illness I may have perceived had anything to with his beliefs about Apollo or any of this other publications.
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Post by photobuster919 on Aug 10, 2011 11:40:39 GMT -4
While I recently began supporting Apollo, I still consider Jarrah White a good friend of mine. Several claims lately is that he will commit suicide in the near future. I truly hope nothing happens to him, but he's 31 years old now. It won't be long until he won't be hoaxing anymore. And when Jarrah stops hoaxing, the theory just dies... That's the way it is. So like I said, I hope with all my heart that Jarrah doesn't commit suicide, but Ralph Rene did just that. I'm sure Rene's suicide was much, much more than just physical pain. It was a longing and nagging burden that he knew they went to the moon and he couldn't live with his own claims anymore... Nobody eats a shotgun because they're in pain. Anyway, my take. -Vincent While I strongly disagree with Jarrah's claims regarding Apollo's authenticity I truly wish that he would never be suicidal over cyberbullying. It is true that we talk about him too much on this forum. More time should be spent really on convincing young ones that Apollo was real. I had no idea these suicidal claims were being made about JW and I feel very sinful if I have any significance to it. I only wrote this topic to settle a few issues on the part of all HB's (not just Jarrah). As I stated before there is no point arguing over what Plait said about Kaysing. I mean lets face it whether we like it or not both sides of the argument have made unsubstantiated claims. Plait claimed Kaysing said all space travel (including vehicles without humans) was impossible but Kaysing never substantiated the claim that Dutch papers printed stories about the moon hoax. But Jarrah has no reason to get bogged down in all of this. He has his own life and his own friends like yourself. I remember he stated in the BOA interview that he was non-suicidal so I'm happy with that confirmation from Jarrah as of yet. My greatest desire is that whether or not he stops hoaxing this view will not change. And I'm glad you agree with my argument the hoax theory is almost no more. That really is all I wanted to clear up with this thread. We will probably never know the truth about Rene so I think that discussion should stop.
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Post by gillianren on Aug 10, 2011 12:42:29 GMT -4
Nobody eats a shotgun because they're in pain. Not true. A lot of people kill themselves because the pain has gotten too severe and they just can't cope with it anymore. It's just that most people can't envision pain like that.
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Post by Vincent McConnell on Aug 10, 2011 12:48:05 GMT -4
The hoax theory is really dying. Back in 2002, all these hoaxers were on the television, giving their views, making documentaries and writing books. Not sure what ended it, but I think a lot of today's youth was convinced by MythBusters (Which as an Apollo Believer, I think wasn't a very good special). Jarrah is the only real light of the hoax community. I'm sure if something were to happen to or with him, the hoax theory would drift away in the wind, never to be heard from again. While I recently began supporting Apollo, I still consider Jarrah White a good friend of mine. Several claims lately is that he will commit suicide in the near future. I truly hope nothing happens to him, but he's 31 years old now. It won't be long until he won't be hoaxing anymore. And when Jarrah stops hoaxing, the theory just dies... That's the way it is. So like I said, I hope with all my heart that Jarrah doesn't commit suicide, but Ralph Rene did just that. Anyway, my take. -Vincent
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 10, 2011 15:14:41 GMT -4
My last involvement with Rene was while helping produce a pilot for a History Channel series. Rene at that time seemed to show signs I would associate with paranoia. I don't believe he was mentally healthy during the two years or so leading up to his death. But I have no evidence at all that whatever mental illness I may have perceived had anything to with his beliefs about Apollo or any of this other publications. I concur with your observations. I think those close to Ralph say he was in incredible amounts of pain that would drive most humans over the edge. He had severe arthritis in the hips (as you are probably aware). I do however have personal views about him that some might deem distasteful. I will not express them here.
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Post by Vincent McConnell on Aug 10, 2011 15:21:26 GMT -4
My last involvement with Rene was while helping produce a pilot for a History Channel series. Rene at that time seemed to show signs I would associate with paranoia. I don't believe he was mentally healthy during the two years or so leading up to his death. But I have no evidence at all that whatever mental illness I may have perceived had anything to with his beliefs about Apollo or any of this other publications. I concur with your observations. I think those close to Ralph say he was in incredible amounts of pain that would drive most humans over the edge. He had severe arthritis in the hips (as you are probably aware). I do however have personal views about him that some might deem distasteful. I will not express them here. Yeah I was unaware of the level of pain Rene was experiencing and promptly deleted my previous comment and was informed of the level of his suffering by Jarrah. Apparently, he was unable to sit down or move because it was so bad. However, I think there should be some kind of medical help for that kind of pain. Now that I know what Rene was going through, I realize why he did what he did. I'm not suicidal so I could never envision killing myself, especially in such a violent nature, but I guess when things will never get better. Our medical system should learn from what happened to Rene and give better health-care. Whether his mental health was in check, as some have suggested, is not my business to deal with, but to ME, suicide seems extreme. I guess it was why I erroneously suggested an alterior motive to his suicide. I was a hoaxer once, I know that they probably all have doubts about what they are saying, and I had misinterpreted this slightly to believe it was one of the causes of Rene's suicide. Rest In Peace, Ralph Rene.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 10, 2011 19:46:44 GMT -4
Whether his mental health was in check, as some have suggested, is not my business to deal with, but to ME, suicide seems extreme. It is, by its very nature suicide is very extreme. That's what makes it so shocking. But it is the last resort for many people. There are some people that feel so much despair with their life that they cannot go on. There are those in so much pain that they cannot go on. There are those that are burdened with debt they cannot go on. It's a fact of life, and sadly an extreme fact. Unless you have been close to the point and dragged yourself back, you will probably never realise how extreme and desperate your life has become. It is hard to comprehend unless you have sunk to those depths and had those such awful thoughts. I have known people that have felt suicidal or have attempted to take their life. It's hard to rationalise.
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