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Post by Kiwi on Mar 30, 2008 21:16:47 GMT -4
I wish all the relevant parties would get their act together and release a box set of all of Buddy Holly's works including the demos and the radio shows. And in decent quality. I have the double LP "A Rock & Roll Collection," bought on 31 January 1974, and except for the noises that well-used vinyl makes, the sound quality is far superior to many of the CDs I have. The first Buddy Holly CD I bought was "From The Original Master Tapes" by MCA and because it was expensive I expected it to be high quality, but it's muffled garbage. If you're interested you can download transcripts of Buddy Holly interviews, session lists and lyrics that I wrote up at this web site: buddyholly.user.fr/Page down to the link "Free Downloads - The Doug Bennett Corner" near the bottom, where there are four files you can download. The session lists are a bit out of date with additional information now available about the session players on some tracks, but they're still useful.
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Post by Joe Durnavich on Mar 31, 2008 19:22:22 GMT -4
I have the double LP "A Rock & Roll Collection," bought on 31 January 1974, and except for the noises that well-used vinyl makes, the sound quality is far superior to many of the CDs I have.
I think my nephew had that one. I remembered it as having You're So Square in either a fake stereo or with an electronic echo that actually didn't ruin the track, but made it more exciting.
The first Buddy Holly CD I bought was "From The Original Master Tapes" by MCA and because it was expensive I expected it to be high quality, but it's muffled garbage.
I have that one. I don't find it muffled, just very flat and uninteresting soundwise for the most part. I bought Buddy Holly Gold, the double CD with 50 songs not too long ago and found the sound quality much better. Although, I'm convinced the Fireballs drummer on some of the overdubbed tracks was listening to some other track in his headphones at the time.
Just because tracks were transferred from the master tapes doesn't guarantee anything. Mastering seems to be a lost art. Record producers used to bring in specialists to make the final mix sound as good as possible on vinyl. Sometimes I think all mastering engineers do today is compress the recording as much as possible to make it sound as loud as possible. They squeeze all the life out of the recording. Today I happened to pop in The Association's Greatest Hits CD and thoroughly enjoyed the open dynamics and warm but clear sound you don't hear often enough on modern popular music or even on modern remixes of old albums (like the recent Beatles Let It Be remix, which was terrible).
If you're interested you can download transcripts of Buddy Holly interviews, session lists and lyrics that I wrote up at this web site:
Am I interested? Sitting on my desktop is a failed attempt at getting a complete tracklist together. I thought I might try to collect my own box set if the Holly's and the Petty's couldn't get a box set out. Your spreadsheet is perfect. Thanks.
Since rights to the Holly tracks are reaching their 50-year expiration in England, we may see a box set from there, or if the U.S. is prompted by that threat to strike preemptively, may finally put out a box set first. I sure hope so. I can't think of another artist whose creativity and lifetime of works would work so well in a comprehensive collection.
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Post by Ginnie on Mar 31, 2008 19:43:22 GMT -4
Sometimes I think all mastering engineers do today is compress the recording as much as possible to make it sound as loud as possible. They squeeze all the life out of the recordingCheck out this Rolling Stone article; www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity/printOver the past decade and a half, a revolution in recording technology has changed the way albums are produced, mixed and mastered — almost always for the worse. "They make it loud to get [listeners'] attention," Bendeth says. Engineers do that by applying dynamic range compression, which reduces the difference between the loudest and softest sounds in a song. Like many of his peers, Bendeth believes that relying too much on this effect can obscure sonic detail, rob music of its emotional power and leave listeners with what engineers call ear fatigue. "I think most everything is mastered a little too loud," Bendeth says. "The industry decided that it's a volume contest."\ also check out: www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.htmwww.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/09/28cover.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_warand www.turnmeup.org/Turn Me Up!™ is a non-profit music industry organization campaigning to give artists back the choice to release more dynamic records. To be clear, it's not our goal to discourage loud records; they are, of course, a valid choice for many artists. We simply want to make the choice for a more dynamic record an option for artists. And to think that George Martin recorded Sgt. Peppers with just four tracks! My favourite Buddy Holly track is Not Fade Away. He was genius, no doubt about it.
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Post by Joe Durnavich on Mar 31, 2008 20:19:59 GMT -4
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Post by Ginnie on Mar 31, 2008 20:28:18 GMT -4
Ain't it the sad truth. But kids don't seem to notice, surprise, surprise. My son insists that his favourite groups don't compress, but ...
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Post by kepsux on Apr 2, 2008 0:14:48 GMT -4
Sometimes the compressed sound works for a record. See Weezer's Pinkerton for a good example. It's not *really* loud, but it sounds dirty and thinks peak off in the high range, but it sounds brilliant. Of course the good sound is not 100% attributed to the "loudness", but it helps.
I listen to a lot of music, recently I have really been into some Mountain Goats records, a punk band from NJ called "The Ergs!", Bomb The Music Industry and an old Jawbreaker album. Oh, I have been digging a German hardcore/noise band called Antitainment for a while too. I'm also in a pop/punk/silly/ponycore band called Atomic Raygun Attack!!. Some of the local kids around here seem to dig us and we have tons of fun recording albums and playing goofy live shows. Good times.
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Post by Kiwi on Apr 2, 2008 4:06:30 GMT -4
Your spreadsheet is perfect. Thanks. Only the spreadsheet? Did you also get the 19-page word-processor file of 88 recording sessions, personnel, and details of overdubs that goes with the spreadsheet? Ginnie: Thanks for that info about compression -- I hadn't heard of it. I think that might be the problem with some CDs I bought from a British company that has re-issued some of Buddy Holly's LPs on CD. They are definitely loud and sounded a bit distorted in places, so I'll compare them with vinyl and other CDs sometime. I've often heard people say that CDs are inferior to vinyl, but those articles point out that technically it's not true. But it does depend on how they are engineered, and I've sometimes wondered if companies deliberately issued poor-quality CDs so they can later do a "New, Improved (and expensive)" edition that we should have got in the first place. It's certainly frustrating to buy the CD of a favourite LP and find that it's not up to the same standard. One LP I've never found a CD of in N.Z. is Beethoven's Violin Concerto, Op.61 (with cadenzas by Kreisler), Yehudi Menuhin (Violin), New Philharmonia Orchestra, Conductor Otto Klemperer, 30 January 1966, London. I have CDs of other performances of this concerto but they're not as good, in my opinion. Not as lively and gutsy, although I've read one critic who said this particular one is not a very good performance. It obviously comes down to taste. One CD I returned for a refund because it had traffic noise in the background. Who the hell wants that? Apparently there are now three CDs of this performance available, by HMV, EMI Classics, and Capitol (details below). I don't really care about the price -- what I want is the quality. Does anyone know how I can find out about that -- which of the three is best? Compression could ruin the performance, which goes from quiet to thunderous. Beethoven: Violin Concerto: Consecration Of The House: Klemperer: Menuhin (Vln): Philh: Release date: 19-7-1999 Catalogue Number: HMV5734452 Label: HMV CD £5.99 Beethoven: Violin Concerto, Romances 1 & 2 / Menuhin CD Label EMI Classics Studio Plus CDU Part# 2508924 Catalog# 64324 Street Date Mar 01, 2005 ADD Re-Release US$9.95 Beethoven: Violin Concerto Label: Capitol Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 61 Ludwig van Beethoven Yehudi Menuhin New Philharmonia Orchestra Conducted by Otto Klemperer US$15.95
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Post by Ginnie on May 20, 2008 20:40:41 GMT -4
Okay, boy and girls. Not just to bump this thread but... I bought my first MP3 player with birthday money - 30 GB. I'm presently putting some of my favourite songs on it, or rather, songs that I want to hear. The difference is this - even though I have favourite artists, you know, The Beatles, Neil Young. Jimi Hendrix and the like- I'm avoiding loading up with them because I've heard them so much over the years. I'm not putting on more than two songs by the same artist. Some of the artists so far: James Brown, Rare Earth, Deep Purple, Johnny Thunders, ZZ Top, The Animals, Dusty Springfield, Sly & The Family Stone, Van Morrison ... My tastes vary from the above to Bowie, Roxy Music, Alice Cooper, Brian Eno, Yes, Pink Floyd, Iggy Pop, New York Dolls, Sensational Alex Harvey Band ...from my past posts you probably get the picture. Now what I want from you guys is this: I want to hear music that is good and that I've probably never heard before. I like it on the energetic side, feedback is welcome if used right, no Van Halen type guitar (I do like Iron Maiden, Motorhead etc. but there is a difference) in, good production, I don't care what year it is from, soul and funk is good, I like distinctive drums, psychedelic fine, heavy metal material okay too (but no groaning vocals) So if any of you out there can recommend stuff, I welcome it. Maybe limit it to about five songs each, stuff that you consider the cream of the crop for your tastes. I want both my ears and my mind to expand! Thanks.
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Post by echnaton on May 20, 2008 23:05:25 GMT -4
The top five songs on my Ipod? I only get five songs? What about the rest of the 13.9 days of stuff crammed into that tiny 80 gig hard drive.
OK, I’ll stop the whining.
Lately I’ve been listing to instrumental music
Sparks Fly Upwards by the Alex Cline Ensemble from the album of the same name. Cline is a jazz drummer but this song gets played with contemporary classical music. It is 31 minutes in length and covers a lot of space sonically.
Blue Spruce by Bela Fleck and Edgar Meyer from Music for Two. Fleck is primarily a banjo player and is marketed in the country section, but his diverse repertoire includes Bach harpsichord music (on banjo) to a rap version of The Ballad Of Jed Clampett. Edgar Meyer is a respected bassist whose styles include classical, bluegrass, newgrass, and jazz. Blue Spruce is a beautifully crafted duet for banjo and double bass. It has something of the sound of some New Age music but solves the ear candy problem of most New Age music by being subtly complex.
Money Jungle from the 1962 trio album of the same name featuring Duke Ellington, Charlie Mingus and Max Roach. Indescribable to me. Just unbeatable modern jazz
For rock/pop songs I have two picks. One each from the early 70’s and 80’s
For those times I want to get angry at everything, Holiday in Cambodia from Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables by the Dead Kennedys. It’s the only song I’ve ever heard that invokes Dr. Seuss’ Star Belly Sneetches. There is nothing like hearing Jello Biafra chant “Pol Pot” to get the blood running.
Even older is Leon Russell’s medley of Jumpin' Jack Flash/ Youngblood, from The Concert For Bangladesh. One of the best popularizations of traditional black music ever recorded. The album has a all star cast and that feel you can no longer get from records in these days of over produced music. The album feels just like what it is, the product of a group of friends, who are also among the top pop musicians, just jamming.
Like every one else I could go on, but I’ve just tried to limit this to music I’ve listened to recently.
edited for clarity
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Post by BertL on May 21, 2008 8:09:31 GMT -4
Well, Ginnie, I myself really like The Dandy Warhols. Although they use the same chords over and over, they have some psychedelic-ish songs as well as energetic rock songs. Also, The Verve might be what you like. They started out as a psychedelic rock band in the early 1990s, but they progressed more into ballads on their third album Urban Hymns. Oh, and for funky stuff Kool & The Gang or KC and the Sunshine Band.
I can't really name individual songs from these bands because they have some very varying stuff. I do really like Sleep by the Dandy Warhols though.
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Post by Kiwi on May 21, 2008 9:46:28 GMT -4
Ginnie -- I mentioned to you how this thread got me checking out the Beatles again, having enjoyed them in my youth. As a result I now have 21 CDs of their music and like all of them.
You like quite a few artists that I do and it sounds like you also like musicianship and good guitar work, so you must check out one of my favourites, Ry Cooder. I'm not fussed about some of his latest and thought Chavez Ravine (2005) was a bit of a flop, but nearly everything he did up until the early 90s is superb. And a bit like Van the Man, he surrounds himself with brilliant musos.
The greatest thing about him, besides the quality, is the variety. Early 20th century jazz, Tex-Mex, Hawaiian, country & western, rock, hard rock, rock 'n' roll, gospel, and lots of quality blues.
I rate the tracks on my CDs -- 3 is listenable, 4 I like, and 5 I really like. Ry Cooder always rates highly in the quantity of fours and fives and I particularly recommend everything he did 1970-1980. Here are my favourites of his with year and numbers of tracks, 4s and 5s.
Ry Cooder (1970) 11-8-2 Into the Purple Valley (1971) 11-6-5 Boomer's Story (1972 10-3-6 Paradise & Lunch (1974) 9-8-1 Chicken Skin Music (1976) 9-4-5 Show Time (1977) 8-3-4 (Live) Jazz (1978) 11-7-4 Bop Till You Drop (1979) 9-3-5 Borderline (1980) 10-5-4 The Long Riders (1980) 13-3-7 The Border / Alamo Bay (1982 & 1985) 22-8-3 Blue City (1986) 11-6-2 Crossroads (1986) 11-6-4 A Meeting by the River (1992) 4-3-1 (with V.M. Bhatt)
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Post by Ginnie on May 21, 2008 16:13:15 GMT -4
I'm familiar with some of his music, and damn, should have a few of his CD's, but don't. I'm going to give his stuff a listen and find out what I like. I first found out about Ry and his Rolling Stones session work (Beggars Banquet, Let it Bleed). I always wondered if Ry introduced Keith to the open G tuning but there is no evidence of this. He almost became the Stones guitar player after Brian Jones left, but apparently him and Keith didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things. I'm amazed at how much session work he has done. Take a look: www.rylanders.free-online.co.uk/RySite/RyPages/RYguestY.htmland rumoured work: www.rylanders.free-online.co.uk/RySite/RyPages/RYrumour.htmlGood suggestion!
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Post by Ginnie on May 21, 2008 16:39:25 GMT -4
Well, Ginnie, I myself really like The Dandy Warhols. Although they use the same chords over and over, they have some psychedelic-ish songs as well as energetic rock songs. Also, The Verve might be what you like. They started out as a psychedelic rock band in the early 1990s, but they progressed more into ballads on their third album Urban Hymns. Oh, and for funky stuff Kool & The Gang or KC and the Sunshine Band. I can't really name individual songs from these bands because they have some very varying stuff. I do really like Sleep by the Dandy Warhols though. Kool and the Gang ...some of their stuff, like Celebration. KC...a little bit too disco. I have this dilemna, I like Funk, but not Disco. But sometimes I hear music that is in-between, and don't want to admit to liking it. From my '70's Disco Sucks bias. I admit to liking Play that Funky Music White Boy and Kung Fu Fighting. The Dandy Warhols eh? I'll search them out at Amazon.
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Post by Ginnie on May 21, 2008 16:53:29 GMT -4
The top five songs on my Ipod? Sparks Fly Upwards by the Alex Cline Ensemble from the album of the same name. Cline is a jazz drummer but this song gets played with contemporary classical music. It is 31 minutes in length and covers a lot of space sonically. Blue Spruce by Bela Fleck and Edgar Meyer from Music for Two. Fleck is primarily a banjo player and is marketed in the country section, but his diverse repertoire includes Bach harpsichord music (on banjo) to a rap version of The Ballad Of Jed Clampett. Edgar Meyer is a respected bassist whose styles include classical, bluegrass, newgrass, and jazz. Blue Spruce is a beautifully crafted duet for banjo and double bass. It has something of the sound of some New Age music but solves the ear candy problem of most New Age music by being subtly complex. Money Jungle from the 1962 trio album of the same name featuring Duke Ellington, Charlie Mingus and Max Roach. Indescribable to me. Just unbeatable modern jazz For rock/pop songs I have two picks. One each from the early 70’s and 80’s For those times I want to get angry at everything, Holiday in Cambodia from Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables by the Dead Kennedys. It’s the only song I’ve ever heard that invokes Dr. Seuss’ Star Belly Sneetches. There is nothing like hearing Jello Biafra chant “Pol Pot” to get the blood running. Even older is Leon Russell’s medley of Jumpin' Jack Flash/ Youngblood, from The Concert For Bangladesh. One of the best popularizations of traditional black music ever recorded. The album has a all star cast and that feel you can no longer get from records in these days of over produced music. The album feels just like what it is, the product of a group of friends, who are also among the top pop musicians, just jamming. Like every one else I could go on, but I’ve just tried to limit this to music I’ve listened to recently. edited for clarity Anything with Duke Ellington has got to be good. The Concert for Bangladesh is classic, although I've only seen the movie. George had many good friends. Wow, the Dead Kennedys. I was a teen when punk started, but because I had already been listening to Iggy, Pop and the New York Dolls, I didn't know what most of the fuss was about. I did understand its intent and attitude I think - sort of a Dadaist swipe at what rock'n roll had become: bloated, pretentious and run by money men. I did listen to the Sex Pistols, the Clash, Ian Drury and a few others. Before Punk, there were some major artists with serious attitude: Neil Young (Tonights the Night, Zuma), The Who (Live at Leeds), The Velvet Underground (esp. Lou Reed) , Captain Beefheart and others. The first punk album in my opinion was the Velvet Underground's White Light/White Heat. More primitive than any Sex Pistol tunes, but of course no one heard of the Velvet Underground till the eighties (except musicians of course). ;D I'll do a web search on the others and let you know what I think of them.
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Post by Ginnie on May 21, 2008 19:30:38 GMT -4
More on Ry Cooder:
I remember reading an interview with Ry. He was asked where he gets his slides from. He said he uses the top part of a particular brand of Kentucky bourbon bottle.
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