Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 30, 2008 17:39:48 GMT -4
Never is it said that Rachel is the only replicant to have undergone the memory implant procedure. True, it's cirucmstantial evidence. But would it make sense to send a replicant with experimental memory implants after others? Who knows if they'll work or not? Or how the replicant will react if it suspects the implants are fake? Rachel never has an opportunity to show unnusual strength. Deckard does. Batty doesn't really beat on Deckard much. He breaks some fingers and then mostly just chases him around. Well: 1) Replicants are illegal on Earth, presumably even if they are being used by the police. 2) Why send Holden after them first, if the whole idea was to send a replicant into danger? Why not send Deckard in the first place? 3) As the list brought up, why implant Deckard with memories that are antagonistic to the police? Why not give him, say, Gaff's personality instead? Gaff is eager to become a bladerunner. Yes, it's basically an audience cue to show "this person (or animal) is a replicant," and to do it in a creepy "not natural" way. But the intent of the lighting setup in that particular scene was to make Rachel's eyes glow (she's the one in focus). Having Deckard's glow behind her seems to have been unintentional to me.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 30, 2008 17:47:14 GMT -4
Dammit, Jason... you and I are not supposed to agree on things below the "Off Topic" line. I'll bet you think Han should have knocked Lando down when he saw him for the first time in Return of the Jedi, too.
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Post by Czero 101 on Jan 30, 2008 17:58:29 GMT -4
Given that this debate has been going on for quite some time, it is doubtful we will come to any firm conclusions in this forum. Unless Ridley Scott's confirmations that Deckard was intended to be a replicant is taken as the "final word" on the subject, the debate will continue since everyone has different interpretations of the various incarnations of the movie and the "clues" they each contain.
Cz
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Jason
Pluto
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Post by Jason on Jan 30, 2008 17:58:43 GMT -4
Dammit, Jason... you and I are not supposed to agree on things below the "Off Topic" line. Like I've told others, it happens from time to time. Don't let it bother you. Nah, I figure Chewie filled him in on where Lando stood while they were in the same cell - before they left to the Sarlaac pit. Having someone sneak into Jabba's palace just to help rescue you goes a long way towards making them even, and Han had already knocked him down once on Cloud City.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 30, 2008 17:59:49 GMT -4
Given that this debate has been going on for quite some time, it is doubtful we will come to any firm conclusions in this forum. Unless Ridley Scott's confirmations that Deckard was intended to be a replicant is taken as the "final word" on the subject, the debate will continue since everyone has different interpretations of the various incarnations of the movie and the "clues" they each contain. Cz Oh I didn't think we'd come to a final answer. I just thought it would be an interesting topic. Also it's nice to be on the majority side of a poll once in a while.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 30, 2008 18:23:28 GMT -4
Dammit, Jason... you and I are not supposed to agree on things below the "Off Topic" line. Like I've told others, it happens from time to time. Don't let it bother you. Nah, I figure Chewie filled him in on where Lando stood while they were in the same cell - before they left to the Sarlaac pit. Having someone sneak into Jabba's palace just to help rescue you goes a long way towards making them even, and Han had already knocked him down once on Cloud City. I think the whole of Return of the Jedi was poorly written - and should have been written to allow Han and Lando to patch things up onscreen. There is great character interaction in TESB, but it is just lousy in ROTJ. Han isn't even really Han in ROTJ, he just looks like Han. Likewise, Lando gets zip. Just bad writing all around.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jan 30, 2008 18:25:24 GMT -4
I'll bet you think Han should have knocked Lando down when he saw him for the first time in Return of the Jedi, too. Nah, I figure Chewie filled him in on where Lando stood while they were in the same cell - before they left to the Sarlaac pit. Having someone sneak into Jabba's palace just to help rescue you goes a long way towards making them even, and Han had already knocked him down once on Cloud City. Besides, when he first "saw" him, was on Jabba's Skiff. Since Chewie told him what was up he would have known that slugging Lando on the skiff in front of everyone would have ruined whatever rescue they had planned.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 30, 2008 18:31:54 GMT -4
I'm not really advocating for Han punching Lando in Return of the Jedi as we know it. I think pretty much the whole storyline was awful, with bad direction (and some bad art direction) to go along with it. Seriously -- did we need to blow up the Death Star... again?
I'm suggesting that there might have been a much better story for the final chapter in the trilogy and that story would have included more interesting interaction with the characters.
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Jason
Pluto
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Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 30, 2008 18:35:04 GMT -4
Hey, let's not get too de-railed here. This thread is about Bladerunner. Go start your own thread about why RotJ is no better than the prequels. I'll agree with you there too.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 30, 2008 18:39:01 GMT -4
Sorry.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 30, 2008 18:41:07 GMT -4
If I recall, in "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep," Deckard is not a robot or whatever it is the bad guys are. It's been a llooong time since I read it, though.
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Post by Count Zero on Jan 30, 2008 18:42:34 GMT -4
3) It makes more sense dramatically. If Deckard isn't human, then none of the principle characters in the movie are. Deckard's character arc is that he re-discovers his humanity through his relationship with Rachel and his empathy for the replicants he is being forced to kill. In the end he decides to run with Rachel. If he's a replicant then there is no human story being told. This, to me, is the whole crux of the argument. Simply put, making Deckard a replicant guts the story.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 30, 2008 18:52:24 GMT -4
Something else to chew on for Bladerunner - who are the good guys? Is it Deckard, or the replicants? Deckard is definitely the protagonist, but he's basically a government assassin. The replicants kill a lot of people, but they are slaves struggling for freedom.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jan 30, 2008 18:59:21 GMT -4
If I recall, in "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep," Deckard is not a robot or whatever it is the bad guys are. It's been a llooong time since I read it, though. In the book he takes the Voigt Kampff test and passes as human.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 30, 2008 19:34:37 GMT -4
Something else to chew on for Bladerunner - who are the good guys? Is it Deckard, or the replicants? Deckard is definitely the protagonist, but he's basically a government assassin. The replicants kill a lot of people, but they are slaves struggling for freedom. Han... I mean Deckard is a good guy, as is Rachel. Deckard only works for the police under the cloud of a threat. We never see him just off someone -- he confronts them first and they usually do some damage to him before he kills. The other characters are various shades of good and bad, but no character is really a bad guy. I think most of the great antagonists in fiction are characters who don't see themselves as bad and may not, in fact, be bad. They may find themselves in position where they do bad, however.
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