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Post by ka9q on Jan 16, 2012 4:22:28 GMT -4
ka9q WHAT? wake up ka9q you must be hallucinating Are your referring to the attached altgen photo? Yes, I am referring to Altgen's most famous photo, taken around Z-255 between Oswald's second and third shots. I guess I can blame this on your tiny version of the picture, because otherwise I would have to conclude there's something seriously wrong with your eyesight. I see both agents on the right running boards of the Secret Service followup car turned sharply to the right, looking back at the corner of the TSBD behind them. Another agent in the back seat of the followup car is also turned completely around. We later learn he's already grabbed the AR-15 rifle carried in that car. Now agents are supposed to continually scan the crowd, if not to turn completely around. So let's look at the spectators on the other (north) side of the street. They don't see JFK every day, and they came specifically to see him and Jackie (and presumably their governor and his wife too). So you'd certainly expect them to be looking at the limousine when their chance came. Instead we see at least five all turned sharply to their left, away from JFK/Jackie and back toward the corner of the building: a white man in a (hard?) hat leaning against a lamppost; three black women standing in front of the building facade who appear over Kellerman (right front seat) and JFK; and most conspicuously a black man in a fedora just to the left of the TSBD entrance. There may be others but these are the ones I can be sure of. And let's not forget that this picture is far from the only evidence that witnesses perceived the shot as coming from the TSBD. At least three people saw the rifle barrel sticking out of the window, including one who accurately described Oswald as the man firing it. What about JBC? Are you referring to his recognition of Oswald's first shot as a rifle shot? Have you ever heard a rifle? How subtle do you think they are? At least one other witness immediately recognized the shots for what they were: motorcycle cop Marrion Baker, following 7 cars back. He had just come back from deer hunting. He drove to the TSBD, entered and encountered Oswald in a lunch room 90 sec after the shots. Yes, it was.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 16, 2012 3:22:54 GMT -4
the mark on the windshield in altgen photo exactly matches the WC exhibit. I think you're very confused. Altgens took more than one photo. There's a windshield mark in his last photo, taken from behind the limousine after the head shot, that matches FBI pictures and the Warren Commission exhibits. But there is no windshield mark -- none -- in Altgens' previous photo, taken in front of the limousine around Z-255, between Oswald's 2nd and 3rd shots. The detailed FBI/Secret Service examination showed the mark to have been made from behind, without actually penetrating the glass, with bits of lead stuck to the inside of the glass. This is consistent with it having been made by Oswald's 3rd shot by forward-flying fragments from the bullet that hit JFK's head. It is not consistent with anything prior to Z-255, including Oswald's first two shots. Nor is it consistent with a shot from the front, or with an intact bullet from either direction.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 16, 2012 3:09:49 GMT -4
I don't get it please explain it really slowly so even you might understand. Say what? Haven't you read it already from the Warren Commission Report or from Reclaiming History? You know, the lone-nut shooter conclusions that you disagree with so strongly? What, you don't think it's reasonable for us to expect you to be familiar with whatever it is you're disagreeing with?
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Post by ka9q on Jan 16, 2012 1:03:14 GMT -4
Twik How bout 1 shot in the neck from the front, thru the windscreen....altgen photo 2 shot in the back from the rear 3 shot in the temple from the front I see no one wants to guess when connally is shot Because it has to be before the altgen photo is taken, correct? Sorry, but the Altgens picture shows no hole or even mark in the windscreen. And since it was taken after Connally was injured, it means he was injured by a shot fired in some other direction. I.e., from behind. Close scrutiny of the Z-film at frame 224/225 shows JFK and JBC reacting simultaneously. You can even see JBC's coat lapel flipping forward and his hat jerking upward at the same time JFK's hands jerk upward into their clenched position. Claims that JFK was struck from the front simply don't match any of the evidence. None whatsoever. And since science is about ruling out hypotheses when they're contradicted by the evidence, please rule out this one or concede that you're pushing it for some reason that has nothing to do with reality.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 18:54:27 GMT -4
Ka9q I will play your game So the bullet was tumbling when it exited JFK neck So how did a tumbling bullet leave a tiny hole in JFK neck that later was mistaken as an entrance wound? Because it did not begin to yaw until it left JFK's neck. By the time it reached JBC's back it had yawed nearly 90 degrees, entering it sideways. There is plenty of such evidence, starting with the FBI ballistics tests and expert testimony documented in the Warren Commission report. Please don't tell me you haven't read it. Even if you disagree with it, you must first be familiar with something before you can have anything to disagree with! I think the documentary others are citing is titled Inside the Target Car. It accurately recreated the shooting with the same type of rifle and ammunition with ballistics models for JFK's neck and JBC's chest. They reproduced almost exactly the same results.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 17:35:32 GMT -4
Twik Please tell me, was connally already wounded in the altgen photo? Altgens took something like 7 photos, but I assume you're referring to his most famous photo taken as he stood in Elm Street in front of the limousine. Based on the positions of the limousine and its occupants this photo was taken around Z-film frame 255. Oswald's second shot hit JFK and JBC around Z-film frame 224 or 225. His third shot hit JFK in the head at Z-film frame 313. Zapruder's camera ran at 18.3 frames/sec. And since 255 is greater than 225, yes, Connally had already been wounded 1.6 sec earlier by the time of the Algens photo. JFK's head would be struck by Oswald's third shot 3.17 sec later. Altgens witnessed that almost directly in front of him, but he froze and did not take the picture. As I pointed out earlier, Altgens' photo shows many witnesses looking back and up at the School Book Depository, not at the president they'd come to see -- very strong evidence that's where the shots came from.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 17:01:21 GMT -4
chew i did not make up magic bullet theory or "pristine" bullet theory No, but you're advocating it. That means you have to defend it when it's pointed out to you that it mischaracterizes the facts. The bullet (CE399) is not, repeat, not "pristine" and it is dishonest to mischaracterize it as such. It is severely flattened, and since it has a hard metal jacket that indicates it struck something hard before coming to rest. And it was deformed significantly! All you have to do is look at it end-on, as the conspiracists never do, and you'll see this. A bullet does not have to hit bone to begin tumbling. It is fully expected behavior when it passes through flesh, as was demonstrated in lab tests. A spinning bullet spins along its longitudinal axis. The physics says that this is unstable, and any object will eventually transition to a flat spin around the body axis with the greatest moment of inertia. The Carcano bullet will eventually do this on its own, though not by the short range (<100 yd) from Oswald's rifle to JFK's neck. It will do this, as demonstrated by firing tests, when it has passed even through flesh that does not deform a hard metal jacketed military bullet like the ones Oswald used. Yes, and it is documented as having done so. The elliptical entrance hole on JBC's back is absolute proof that it passed through something else - JFK's neck - before it got there. Again, your uninformed personal incredulity is no match for the results of actual firing tests. That's your characterization, one that has no basis in reality. Again it is simply dishonest to call it "pristine", or to say that the WC relied on it staying that way. I don't know if we know exactly when the bullet acquired its flattening, but it seems likely to have done so either when it broke one of JBC's ribs or when it hit his wristbone. And what Spector quote are you referring to? There is abundant evidence (geometric, visual and medical, backed up by ballistics tests) that a single bullet - Oswald's second shot - passed through JFK's neck without hitting his spine, yawed in the air, entered JBC's back sideways, broke some ribs and punctured his right lung, left his chest below the right nipple, entered and broke his wrist and eventually lodged, spent, in his thigh. When a hard jacketed bullet passes through so many structures one expects it to have less damage than if it had dissipated its full energy against a single large bone. But it is hardly "pristine", and to continually label it as such is one of the biggest of the many outright lies told by the conspiracists.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 16:30:37 GMT -4
Why would he need to ask? In the confusion of the moment he likely didn't know what the noise was until he realized that he had been shot. A car backfiring? A firecracker? A balloon popping? I would have found it more strange if he said he immediately knew it was a gun shot because people just don't expect to be shot at. Actually, Connally testified that he immediately recognized the first noise (the one that missed) to be a rifle shot because he was an avid hunter and was very familiar with the sound of guns firing. He did not remember hearing the second shot, the one that hit him, but he did not find this surprising because he knew that every rifle has a supersonc velocity; the bullet had hit him before the report from the rifle reached him, and it's extremely common for trauma victims to have no memory of the events immediately around their injury. Personally, I think it amazing that he accurately remembered as much as he did given what he went through, and people often expect too much of a person under those circumstances. So Playdor's complaint about JBC using the word "they" is beyond ridiculous. It's the kind of thing I'd expect to read in The Onion.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 1:52:57 GMT -4
Why would Connally risk death, and accept horrible pain and injury, when there were easily dozens of easier ways of doing things? Had that bullet struck Connally just a little to the left, it would have struck his heart and immediately killed him. Even the lesser injuries he did sustain could have killed him without immediate treatment. He himself thought he was mortally wounded. The notion that Connally was somehow in on a plot to kill JFK just shows how utterly irrational some conspiracists can be.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 1:43:13 GMT -4
The MC was an excellent weapon your so funny Why don't we see what someone who actually owns and shoots one says about it? www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOQ2oebB2Mwww.youtube.com/watch?v=O1ayL8RXJTsIf you've spent any time studying the JFK assassination you would know that at the time of Oswald's third shot his target was slowly moving directly away from him on a slight down slope that kept it almost stationary in his sights. Where do you "understand" this from? Yes, Oswald only had 4 shells. That's all he had on hand and he didn't have time to buy more. (Remember the guy didn't drive a car.) Had he been part of some major conspiracy, now don't you think they would have taken care of such details?
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 1:09:27 GMT -4
then you really don't care to know the truth do you? Actually, I'd say that most of us here do know the truth. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've studied the JFK assassination off and on for years. And I think I do understand the truth pretty well. JFK was quite fond of motorcade rides in open convertibles, and one day that caught up with him. The events of that day have been as thoroughly investigated and documented as any in modern history. Had the victim been anyone but the President of the United States there'd be no argument that Lee Harvey Oswald killed him and acted alone. Now if you'd like to argue that we've missed something, and the truth is other than what the overwhelming evidence says it is, then it's entirely up to you to argue your case.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 15, 2012 0:09:19 GMT -4
how is the radiation held in the belts? or what force could hold it, is is by electrical charge or magnetic? Basic electromagnetism says that when a charged particle moves through a magnetic field, it experiences a force at right angles to both the direction of the field and the motion of the particle. This same principle is used in CRT-type TVs to deflect the electron beam so that it repeatedly scans the screen. This force deflects the particle at an angle, so the direction of the force continually changes to remain at right angles to the particle's new direction. If the magnetic field covers a large volume, as the earth's field does, the particle now moves in a closed circle. It is trapped in the field. The diameter of the circle depends on the mass of the particle, its velocity and the strength of the field. Because the earth's magnetic field strength and direction varies with location, other factors come into play. The charged particles spiral around the magnetic field lines. Because they're repelled by increasing field gradients, they tend to bounce back and forth between the north and south magnetic poles, occasionally hitting the atmosphere where they produce auroras. All this has been extensively studied and published since Van Allen's original discovery in 1958. The radiation exposures to the Apollo astronauts were carefully measured and those figures too are public.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 14, 2012 8:00:31 GMT -4
concerning the modification of the z-film i don't have the hows, i don't know film. there are many individuals that have spent the time to analyze the film and are qualified to explain how it was altered, and why the features i presented are anomalous Okay, so you're trusting the conclusions of experts. There's nothing wrong with that, many people do that every day. No one can be an expert in everything. There are experts in this group on the subject of photographic analysis and, as you've already discovered, quite a few experts on the subjects of the Apollo program and the many different aspects of space exploration, all of whom come to quite different conclusions than you do. Why do you prefer your experts? Could it be because they tell you what you want to hear?
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Post by ka9q on Jan 14, 2012 6:39:14 GMT -4
Or just gaze out the window the next time you're on an airplane and see how many objects become momentarily visible when they happen to catch the sun at just the right angle. I especially like to watch the sun's reflection racing us across a series of lakes and rivers.
There aren't very many specular reflectors on the moon. I'd venture to say that nature provides NO such reflectors despite some really whacked-out hoaxers who claim they reflect our laser ranging pulses! But they're really easy to see in some LRO pictures of the Apollo sites. The ribbon cables laid out to connect the experiments to the central station at the Apollo 12 ALSEP site are very prominent in one LRO image taken at a high sun angle. But those cables are completely invisible in pictures taken at other sun angles that reveal many other features instead.
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Post by ka9q on Jan 13, 2012 12:35:01 GMT -4
Not to mention that the car windshield didn't have a hole in it when it arrived at the hospital. A chip and crack created from the inside yes, but no hole. Created by fragments of the fatal head shot. We know that because Altgens' picture, taken between the second and third shot (JFK's arms are up with his fists clenched), shows no damage to the windshield. That night, a careful search was conducted for bullet holes in the limousine. Other than the cracks in the windshield, none were found. This proves that every shot that entered the limousine hit one or more of its occupants, who stopped them. This alone proves the so-called "magic bullet theory" as we know the bullet that passed through JFK's neck (the second shot) exited his neck with substantial velocity left. It could only have hit John Connally in the back, which it did.
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