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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 13, 2011 4:53:09 GMT -4
No. I wanna prove to hoaxers that third party professionals know it can be done. How is using Apollo data third party proof?? The satellites that you rely on for communication, TV and weather forecasting. Protection of their electronics uses radiation data gathered by NASA. Understanding radiation in space has massive commercial implications. NASA data has been proven to serve that commercial need. Why do you insist on third party verification? There is a lot of work in this area published in open source literature. If you care to put forward a few bullet points of questions that you may still have then we can work them through. Since I have never worked for NASA, that makes me a third party source. This is the third time I have suggested this to you in this very thread. A thread that you started. Have you read my suggestion? If not, then why start the thread? If you have, then why do you keep ignoring me? I have another question for you, and one I have asked hoax proponents. If they cannot trust NASA data, how can they use that data as evidence against NASA? Can you see who the hoax theory operates. It's dishonest, and followed by stubborn crackpots. <edit: spelling and punctuation>
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 12, 2011 17:40:48 GMT -4
Is there a thread that explains all this? If not, it would be great to here some expert analysis on this I'm not aware of a thread that discusses the radiation issue in detail. At least not all aspects of it. Since it such a central tenet of the hoax theory, it tends to get discussed every so often and gets lost amongst many of the threads here. I've asked Vincent to stump up some questions so maybe we can discuss them with him. He started this thread, and has not come back to it. If he still has some outstanding questions following his 'conversion', then I suggested he creates a few bullet points. We can then discuss each one in turn. I'd be happy to answer his questions, at least over the next few weeks. After that I have much less time on my hands.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 12, 2011 3:01:57 GMT -4
I almost choked on my breakfast when I read this by sts60 forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7463522#post7463522The extended dance remix indeed. I do like Rule 4 at JREF. That will grate SlapDash a little, but it's good to see him being reined in. Is it possible to be banned from JREF for similar activities that SlapDash has shown here and at BAUT?
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 12, 2011 1:58:33 GMT -4
It's looking good. So so so happy ;D
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 12, 2011 1:52:01 GMT -4
I think this is the line you wanted: ... It's fundamentally dishonest to use that man's authority without also his expertise. ... That's the one. I'm going to add it to my signature. ka9q has often cited the line of questioning used by Jay at the IMBd. The failure to answer the question that Jay posed shows dishonesty.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 23:06:22 GMT -4
Jay was part of a choral society that gave a performance at Jackson Hole? Don't tell anyone, but I went white water rafting at Jackson Hole 10 years ago, along the Snake River. Or did I? Maybe I was one of Jay's crew, meeting with Jay under a guise. Jay claims he was in a choral society, I claim I was rafting. Maybe I was secretly meeting with other NASA stooges. The plot thickens.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 22:35:54 GMT -4
I used to read my friends Calvin and Hobbes at University. Loved them.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 21:49:34 GMT -4
That sounds very unpleasant, I hope you feel better soon. Thanks. Off topic, but I am prone to them. One turned into an abscess in my ear once. That was agonising. This is easily the worst one I have had in a long time. The side of my face has been very swollen and it led to toothache as the inflammation began pressing down on nerves. That was rather alarming as I have no tooth decay. ;D I think the dizziness a few days ago was worse though.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 21:28:18 GMT -4
To target a polar orbit you simply nudge the spacecraft at right angles to the orbital plane so that it flies over the lunar north or south pole. Then you do a lunar orbit insertion on the back side just like Apollo, and you're in a polar lunar orbit. Makes sense. Maybe I should have thought about it a bit more. Thinking and me don't do too well at this hour in the morning. Double ear infection, tinnitus and headaches have resulted in some bizarre sleeping patterns.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 21:24:04 GMT -4
But WHY, WHY, must you fight the astronauts battles. First of all they don't give a damn, Eugene Cernan quoted himself, "I don't give a damn about all that sh*t." For all the reasons Jay, Bob, Gillian, echnaton and others have already given - and more. Ditto. No one is fighting the astronauts battles. I cannot speak for others, but my informed guess is that we probably all have the same reason for contributing to this forum. We've just arrived here by different routes based on different experiences. I have always been consistent about this, and it is not about Apollo for me. I couldn't really care either way if it was a flight to the moon or trips to the deepest parts of the Pacific ocean. It is an amazing technological accomplishment that is denigrated by people who can barely add up, count or put forward a logical/coherent argument. Why is that such a problem for me? I see the likes of Jarrah White, David Percy, Ralph Rene, Bill Kaysing, Jack White, James Collier, Marcus Allen, Bart Sibrel and all the other HBs as free loaders on society. They want their 15 minutes of fame and will do anything to get it, showing complete disregard for anyone else. I'll ask you a simple question and I want a simple answer Vincent. How would you feel if you achieved your ambition of joining the USMC and becoming a US Marine. You've trained hard for your basic training, you've sweated the miles to qualify to wear the uniform of a marine, and then someone tells you they think you are a fake. How would that make you feel? Be honest, inside, how would you feel after all your hard work and dedication? There are many engineers and scientists that write at these boards. There are also many people that have no qualifications in these fields. They have all put it in the hard miles to study and understand the subject of Apollo and the science that surrounds it. Yet along comes some loud mouthed idiot who cannot count, perform basic arithmetic manipulation, puts together logically inconsistent arguments and accuses people of being frauds or towing the party line. The people here tend to feel a little bit aggrieved. Personally, I find the HBer a cheap insult to humanity and the advances that we have made in science in the last 40 years. What I find particularly offensive is that the HBer uses the technologies of communications, aerospace engineering, computing etc to lay waste to the scientists and engineers that have provided him with those tools. He accuses them of such crimes as 'towing the party line' or 'fraud and lying', yet at the same time he exploits the fruits of their labour. I find that a hard pill to swallow. For me, the sooner they are cast to the dustbin of humanity the better. I have no sense of sadness for the passing of Rene and Kaysing. Yes, I'm sure they had families and friends who were saddened by their passing, but I couldn't care about them as people. Rene contributed nothing but hatred to the world, and Kaysing started a big lie. I find that hard to forgive. In the end they spent their last days as sad, crackpot loners, and it was richly deserved. You get out of life what you put in. If Jarrah White, Jack White, Bart Sibrel and others go the same way, you know what? I won't care. I won't care a dot. Diddly. You won't find a tear rolling down my face. Not an ounce of compassion, a sense or mourning or an expression of sadness. They are all 15 minutes wannabees that deserve nothing but to wallow in the world that they create around them. Call me hard, call me uncaring. I don't really care.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 20:43:03 GMT -4
Interesting post Bob, thanks. The LRO is in a polar orbit around the moon isn't it? How would such a probe inserted into an orbit? I cannot imagine that it would have followed the same trans-lunar route that Apollo did, since the delta-V on insertion around the moon would have been interesting. Practical orbital mechanics is not my forte I'm afraid.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 20:27:23 GMT -4
I repeat Chriz's post. What specific questions do you have Vincent? Basically, I'm filming this for youtube. I plan on asking him if he believes the shielding on the Apollo Missions was enough to protect the astronauts from radiation. I have some more detail that I included in my email so we'll just have to see. You don't really need to ask a health physicist. It's a complex problem, so not a trivial one to understand. It takes more than the few pages Ralph Rene offers in his pamphlet 'NASA mooned America' to understand the radiation issue. Don't get suckered by his solar flare argument. If I were to boil it down to a simple statement, then the major problem for astronauts would have been Solar Proton Events (SPEs), and NOT solar flares. There were no SPEs during the Apollo flights. At least non that I am aware of. I understand the the radiation monitors aboard Apollo 16 began to register higher levels than other flights, but it was not enough to cause the astronauts concern. It is possible that Apollo 16 might have been grazed by an event, but nothing of concern. Others may correct my understanding and memory. The SPE versus solar flare problem is probably a good starting point. Once you being to understand that, then you can peel back the layers regarding the solar flare claim. I and others would be happy to discuss this with you, but can I suggest you ask some specific questions. Several bullet points would be a good start.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 13:57:11 GMT -4
I repeat Chriz's post. What specific questions do you have Vincent?
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 5:21:09 GMT -4
You need to come to the UK. Most cities have dropped the price of goods to £0. What it that all about? I can see having unrest in Southern Europe, but you guys aren't tied into the euro mess. What are the UK riots are really about. A young man was shot by police in Tottenham, London. He was of Afro Caribbean origin. Initially, protests began Tottenham, but spread to other areas of the capital. For some reason, youths in other cities began looting. In the end there were no riots, just looting and robbery. Small gangs of youths on bikes were roaming the streets in Manchester (NW England), evading the police, and looting shops. There was no sense of riot with battles in the streets. I think most of us here are a bit confused by what we have seen. The BBC insist on calling it riots. I wish they would call it looting and robbery, since that is what it is.
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Post by lukepemberton on Aug 11, 2011 5:01:18 GMT -4
So the biggest claim about JW here, is that he said the astronauts were in "polar orbit". I'm not engineer or astronaut, so can someone tell me if that even exists?? And where can I find the video of him saying this? Vincent, a word of advice. You're starting several threads about tittle tattle. It's not good form. With regard to Jarrah and his claims, I am weak in that department and admit that is to my own detriment at times. I have a certain amount of frustration as far as he is concerned. Others here are more resilient than I, and don't find him interesting. I've given you an account elsewhere that explains why people tend not to discuss him. Please read the account very carefully, and try to understand what I perceive and how this perception relates to this forum. Try to understand the difference between skepticism and conspiracism. If you have doubts about Apollo still, then ask questions. We all have to ask questions at some point in our lives. If you believe Apollo, then leave Jarrah behind. Forget him. He's bad news, and there is ample evidence to show his venom and hatred towards those that do not agree with him. Vincent, this is my advice. You can take it or leave it. Take a little time out. At the moment you need to slow down a little. Go away and ask what person you are, and the person you want to be. Then ask yourself what friends and role models you wish to have in life. Once you have reached that answer, go ahead and plan your future. I believe you hope to join the USMC? Then do it. I've seen others here appeal to put an end to the Jarrah debate. I'm one on the worst, but LunarOrbit, please put an end to it. I'd be happy to see some of the threads closed.
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