|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 10, 2010 10:27:46 GMT -4
This is an interesting thread. I have tried to work out the value of g from the Apollo footage. For the same footage, one can compute different results because of the various sources of "error" described above. For example, picking John Young's feet is not a very clever way of doing it, I found most variation for g using his feet as my datum.
What I have found is that when I increase the film speed by the amount the hoaxers claim, and the 245% according to Newton, I always get an answer less than 9.81 m s-2. Even at 245% playback speed, I have never consistently computed 9.81 m s-2, and more often than not, find it to be less than 9.81 m s-2. Therefore I conclude that the footage was not filmed on the Earth or the moon, but another planet, proving we could travel beyond the van Allen belts. The US just claimed the moon as a giant ruse to cover up landing somewhere else ;D Sorry...
Similarly, when I compute g at original playback speed, I always compute a value for g that is less than the moon. There is something consistent about the error I guess.
What I do find interesting is that the hoaxers have now firmly nailed a film reduction speed of 67% to their mast, which means that if the film is increased to 150% is should faithfully reproduce 9.81 m s-2. Of course, the logic behind this was circular, proving that 1 = 1, but that is for another day.
My point is this, they have shot themselves in the foot in a way. David Percy originally quoted half speed as the "correct" reduction factor. That means one has to increase the footage by 200% to restore Earth-g. Using the now "accepted" hoax speed of 67%, one has to restore the footage by 150% to regain Earth-g.
David Percy was nearer the actual physics with the number he pulled out of his posterior. The current figure quoted by hoaxers is 95% away from the physics.
So, when one plays the footage back at 150%, even with some of the sources of error mentioned, the values obtained for g are wildly different to 9.81 m s-2.
I find it quite funny, that when the accidental scrutiny of Percy's claim was exposed, the hoaxers managed to argue themselves into a corner, and move further way from the figure required to restore Earth g.
I know this is an over simplification of the bio-mechanics, and the astronauts aren't point particles. However, my point is simple. Here we have a discussion explaining the complexities of making these measurements that is rational and balanced, yet when confronted with the logic of their claims, the hoaxers remain stubborn and even show more ignorance with the figures they quote.
I lie in my bed warm and cuddly, in the knowledge that if their circular reasoning and number pulling from derriere arguments are proof of a massive conspiracy, then there really is nothing to worry about.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 3, 2010 7:22:00 GMT -4
You've used a homonym there. In British English the word to use is "peddles," and as far as I can tell from Webster's, it's the same in American English. Wee learn something knew every day. I bough down before yew, and you're superior grammar. ;D
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 3, 2010 2:12:24 GMT -4
I think it's known as a Whipple Shield. That's the one. A Whipple shield... thanks! Sorry if my question to Bob was not clear. Interestingly, the first tanks of World War 1 eventually adopted a similar design. At first their hulls were made of a single sheet of metal. Any bullets hitting the outside caused fragments of steel to be ejected on the inside (due to shock waves), causing the occupants to be injured. Not that it mattered, as they were overcome by carbon monoxide from the engines anyway. Future tank hulls were made of layers (I think two) so the second layer would absorb the ejected fragments. Most modern armour works on this principle.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 2, 2010 18:39:24 GMT -4
Innocent by whose standards? The Ley Lines, of course. Yes, I engaged with him today at Bert's channel. He seems to have a thing for Ley Lines. I posted the following last night, but the image seemed to vanish this morning. This is one of my more favourite quotes from YouTube, pertaining to the A15 flag and the electrostatic theory describing the flag movement.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 2, 2010 11:15:29 GMT -4
I don't have those figures at hand, but below is a illustration showing the basic construction of the hull and micrometeoroid protection. Thanks for the interesting image of the LM's micrometeoroid shield. I have read somewhere before how a micrometeroid shield works, and that fits exactly what I have read. It breaks up's the intial particle into smaller fragments, which are then stopped by subsequent layers. Does the construction technique of such layers, or the mechanism by which the micrometeoroid is broken up and stopped have a name(s).
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 1, 2010 14:03:37 GMT -4
Who is this guy Jarrah White anyway? How did he find time to make hundreds of movies on YT? We must be careful not to turn this thread into a 'Let's bash Jarrah.' So, given my efforts away from this forum to expose the less savoury aspects of his character and his treatment of others, I hope that this is balanced: A brief bio of Jarrah: He's from Sydney, Australia, and refers to himself as the 'Grandson of the Moon Hoax Conspiracy' theory. I don't know if the title is one he gave himself, or one which was bestowed upon him by others. He resides at a YouTube channel, WhiteJarrah. At the time of writing he has 403 videos. Not all of them deal with the hoax, some are Anime, some are Thomas the Tank Engine parodies, there are some other miscellaneous works such as tributes/birthday wishes. In fairness, the moon hoax does not entirely define his life, he has other interests beyond the hoax theory. He says he has a steady income, and I for one believe that he doesn't spend every waking hours making moon hoax videos. It has taken him 3-5 years to produce the 400 videos, and not all of them are involved. Some are quite short. So in the time scales, it seems a fair reflection to say he's got a life and other interests. He has some endearing attributes that suggest he has a degree of energy that is invested in other projects. Much like Kaysing, I think he has a moral compass with regard to those less fortunate in society. For example, he has used the aborignal flag in one video, so I think he has empathy for the aboriginal plight. I respect that stance, much like I respect Kaysing's stance for his work with veterans and the homeless. However, when it comes to Apollo, the bad science he pedals in his videos, and the way he describes what he calls his 'opponents', I have strong differences of opinion. Jarrah is certainly not evil personified. Compared with some of those that subscribe to his channel, he's actually quite pleasant. However, I'd say he needs to take a look at himself and at the impact that the emotional investment in the hoax is having on his life and that of others. He has a very unbalanced view toward those that defend Apollo, and seems unwilling to learn. Having said that, I've noticed some subtle changes in his understanding of solar flares following a 'debate at the IMDb. However, those changes usually come several months after an intellectual trouncing, and are usually introduced into his 'work' by stealth. As for suing him. I think people with a reasonable public profile (e.g. Plait and Savage) will dismiss him, and rightly so. Obscurity is the name of the game, and Jarrah should be left in obscurity, as that is what he richly deserves for the venom he has shown others when defending the hoax theory. That's not to say that the exposure of Jarrah should be ignored. I think by leaving it to mere mortals, and there are a few trying to ensure that his modus operandi is exposed, he does not gain attention from those in the public eye. That sort of limelight would be his nirvana.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 1, 2010 12:11:08 GMT -4
If I read the TAM promo correctly, Phil Plait was also on the bill there...wonder why Jarrah didn't "ambush" him? As much as Jarrah maligns him, you'd think he'd have been all over him. Scooter, here's Part 1 of 5, describing Jarrah's meeting with Adam and Dr plait. In Jarrah's own words... www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ajIVmGiQE
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Aug 1, 2010 7:36:54 GMT -4
Blokes got more front than Blackpool. For those who are unsure what/where Blackpool is... It's a seadside town in the North West of England, famous for light illuminations in early autumn (fall). It has a very long beach (sea front - hence front). Sorry if I sound patronising... not intended.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 31, 2010 18:47:29 GMT -4
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 31, 2010 18:42:51 GMT -4
Jay uses bold, both when in forums and on Clavius. I think that is useful as it distinguishes between Jay's writing and the writing he is addressing. Quotes and using bold type are far from annoying, they provide context.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 31, 2010 11:16:39 GMT -4
I'll be looking for that show in the fall. I highly recommend Phil's books - they are very entertaining. I've never read them, but I will certainly be buying his new one. I was really thinking of going to TAM this year, and wish I had now. Maybe next... but yes, I like Phil. He seems to have a good sense of humour, and anyone who makes the effort to promote science and make it accessible is a top bloke in my book. With the death of physics and chemistry departments in the UK, we need more like Phil.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 31, 2010 8:38:56 GMT -4
Interesting figures. In my most humble of opinion, one trait I feel the hoaxers have is an 'anti-government' stance. Many of them feel that Apollo was a waste of tax dollars. I read that for every $1 spent, it created $14 because of the skills it generated. I can only guess that this is based on a long term return of investment analysis. Can anyone confirm the economic benefit of Apollo, or am I talking utter rubbish?
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 31, 2010 6:34:09 GMT -4
This is of course JW accepting the radiation is not an issue, well done JW. Oh, he still accepts radiation is an issue and that it means certain death for him. He considers it a noble cause he is quite willing to die for. I asked him if he is so certain about the radiation, will he accept a cheaper one way trip. He said he would. It's all part of the spin and bluster that he pumps out in volumes.
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 30, 2010 18:35:51 GMT -4
Very much so... I ripped the video before he had chance to make them private, and handed it to the police, along with some other threats that were made to me by other hoaxers. If you have a YouTube account, send the channel url to me, and I'll send you a private link so you can see what was said. When I get chance, I'll write up the 'super lunar rock' theory here.
Since this experience, my line with a lot of the YouTube hoaxers is to tell them that 'they act tough behind an IP but would not talk to my face in the same way.'
It's quite funny as their reaction is usually 'A meeting can be arranged.', or 'PM me your address so we can meet.'
I think it really shows what they are, an aggressive, angry little bunch who really need a serious dose of introspection. I've never implied violence or suggested violence, I just point out that I don't think they would talk to me face to face like it. My point is that it's very easy to put up videos that threaten people, or talk trash in comments, but when it comes to answering simple questions regarding their claims they resort to cheap insults and gutter talk.
I've been no angel at YT myself, I'll admit, but it's often after some fairly unsavory accusations. I've had four YouTube accounts. I started using one to debate the moon hoax after getting interested in Apollo, I was never rude, or abusive. I was faced with a barrage of abuse instantly (mainly by un4g1v3n1 and SD02). In the end I closed that account as some of the stuff that was reaching my mail box was terrible. I was accused of 'pedophilia' for no reason, that my father abused me... and that's the stuff I will repeat in forum. Some of it gets very unsavory.
I then opened another account and thought I'd try and counter it, but I soon got fed up with the abuse again. Then I thought 'Why am I being silenced by these people?' I opened a third account and stood up for myself a bit more. I had to close that because of the abuse I was getting in my mail box. In the end I tried again, and settled, having made quite a few friends there now.
I know a lot of people here are not great YouTube fans, but I suggest that people look at PhilWebb59's work on craters and a critique of Jarrah's Exhibit D. It's very good, and nice to see someone putting out some real hard science at YouTube.
That's my YouTube experience...
Luke
|
|
|
Post by lukepemberton on Jul 30, 2010 16:49:55 GMT -4
I've had some dealings with Jarrah White, and StrayDog02 (SD02). I was commenting on a YouTube video (OK, it’s a guilty pleasure), and got involved in an exchange with SD02. As usual, questions regarding real evidence of claims were avoided by SD02, and the exchange of comments descended into the usual YouTube gutter. I referred to SD02 by his first name, and he insisted on mine... so I gave him a joke name (from the movie Porkys???).
Anyway, several months passed; I released a few videos regarding Ralph Rene's alternative science theories, with narration. I also made a criticism of Jarrah’s outstanding mathematics with his 1 = 1 debacle, and his lunar ‘super rock’ that could be accelerated with 216 times more force on the moon. By this time I had updated my channel with some basic information.
Meanwhile, Jarrah had used my accent, the subject matter of my videos and my channel description to construct a pen picture of me. It also transpired he had been given the joke name by SD02. By chance, Jarrah found someone on the web that (a) Fitted the pen picture he had drawn (b) Shared the joke name given to him by SD02.
Jarrah was ready... he had his man and published a video naming and shaming me... I saw the videos at his channel and started watching them. He then began raising the drama, leading into how he had my name... he then showed the comment that I had made to SD02 and went on to name an innocent man; name, place of work, position, email address, work number etc. I very quickly phoned the poor person involved. In fairness Jarrah took down the video once he knew.
But what was really off the cuff... in another video I had used a shot of some flying geese, with a house in the background. Jarrah took that shot, and finished up his video with this pearl:
“but you know what? I now have his voice. Oh, and I also have this street scene here, which is probably his home address, let’s see if they’ll match up with anything.” He then finished the video with the song ‘Let the hunter be the hunted.’
So, this little foray at TAM with wire and pen camera... it comes as no surprise.
He has friends that believe Apollo, and he’s quite chummy with them, and he cites this as evidence he can have friends that believe in Apollo too, and that is not an issue to him. I don’t buy it for one minute. His attacks on Phil, Jay, Jim and others over the years show that he’s got some deep seated hatred for anyone who opposes his views, or has spoken out against the hoax. The fact he labels defenders as propagandists and apologists speaks volumes about his mentality. He has put the word liars next to the pictures of researchers, published emails and taken them out of context (often drawing conclusions that aren’t there to be made with the info provided).
Currently he’s trying to raise $200 000 000 to fly him to the moon, because ‘propagandists’ have said he would not believe Apollo was real if he was shown the relics himself. He’s taken a few throw away words, intended to illustrate his blind faith, and used them literally to take pot shots at his ‘opponents’. The fact the money cannot be raised? He knows that, he just wants to prove that others aren’t willing to put their money where their mouth. He can then turn around and say ‘you can’t have that much faith then if you want give money.’ He’s like a political spin doctor, except his motives are much more transparent. He must think people are dumb. I wouldn’t give someone who makes the claims he does, with such a rudimentary understanding of physics, one cent.
I’ve asked him several times if he will have his work peer reviewed, a lot cheaper than a flight to the moon. No answer yet... he’s asking questions of others by the dozen, whether in his ‘videos’, emails, stomping around the world to TAM... whatever. Yet the guy is too afraid to sit down for a week and be questioned about his claims by experts in their field.
If you have got this far, thanks for reading. Personally, I am learning to ignore him as much as possible. I think the odd swipe at him is difficult to resist, and it is deserved when he makes the sort of arguments he does. I’d like to see him have confidence in his theories, write up his work, and send it for peer review, with verification he has sent it, and copies of comments he has received. He does not get to pick the journals he submits to either. I would suggest relevant journals with gravitas and prestige. He won’t, as he knows his case will crumble. It’s a safe case in his little walled garden, with his videos for the fawning few; where he can ‘pwn’, chest beating as he tells the world he had debunked another argument. I’d like to see him spend a day with experts in spacecraft design, nuclear physics, health physics and solar physics, and present his argument on radiation. I think he’ll soon realise why his name is White, as that is the colour he will turn...
|
|