|
Post by unknown on Jun 2, 2005 17:14:49 GMT -4
This thread is: "We never went to Mars", not to the moon.
Why do you never went to Mars? Because after one kilometer you can no longer see the probe going to Mars. You have no telescope that can see it in its travel of 500 million kilometers in the darkness of universe. Hubble can't see like human eyes, it "sees" only lights coming from distant places of universe. You can't see Mars, you can't see your probe, but magically your probe lands on Mars attracted by its perfume of carbon dioxide. Have you found any software that can drive your probe to a target 500 million kilometers distant? ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by sts60 on Jun 2, 2005 17:42:12 GMT -4
In other words, "I can't see it, so I don't believe it." As usual, you have made a gross error of fact. Deep-space objects can be tracked telescopically for quite some distance (though not so far as Mars), but Apollo spacecraft were imaged in transit to the Moon and more recently the Galileo probe was imaged from 8 million km. This could not be done if the guidance theory, design, and software did not work as they were supposed to. So, yes, I have found software that can drive probes to targets hundreds of millions of kilometers distant. It's on various spacecraft ranging through the Solar System. It has nothing to do with magic, and everything to do with the science of astrodynamics. Furthermore, while some Earth satellites are visible to the naked eye and some require telescopes to see, they all work by exactly the same principles used to "steer" deep-space probes. Earth satellites and the services they provide together comprise tens of billions of dollars of business annually. Evidently, there are a lot of banks, analysts, and other people willing to commit great deals of money to things they can't see, but are guided by these principles. The fact that you are ignorant of their existence is not evidence for your position. So when will you offer evidence for any of your claims? Or even evidence that you have any understanding, any at all, of this subject?
|
|
|
Post by unknown on Jun 2, 2005 17:57:41 GMT -4
sts60 wrote: "Earth satellites and the services they provide together comprise tens of billions of dollars of business annually. Evidently, there are a lot of banks, analysts, and other people willing to commit great deals of money to things they can't see, but are guided by these principles. The fact that you are ignorant of their existence is not evidence for your position".
Hey, sts60 What craps are you saying? Earth satellites are at a ridiculous distance in comparison with 500 million kilometers of Mars. ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by JayUtah on Jun 2, 2005 18:18:38 GMT -4
Because after one kilometer you can no longer see the probe going to Mars.
By this "logic" the person who just left my office ceased to exist the moment he was out of sight.
Have you found any software that can drive your probe to a target 500 million kilometers distant?
Yes. Which is to say, the software exists and is not overly complicated for someone who understands orbital mechanics.
|
|
|
Post by DaveC on Jun 2, 2005 18:26:27 GMT -4
This thread is: " We never went to Mars", not to the moon. Why do you never went to Mars? Because after one kilometer you can no longer see the probe going to Mars. You have no telescope that can see it in its travel of 500 million kilometers in the darkness of universe. Hubble can't see like human eyes, it "sees" only lights coming from distant places of universe. You can't see Mars, you can't see your probe, but magically your probe lands on Mars attracted by its perfume of carbon dioxide. Have you found any software that can drive your probe to a target 500 million kilometers distant? ;D ;D ;D OK so we're dealing with a nine year old, a troll or an idiot. On the assumption it may be a nine year old, I guess we can continue to try to educate "unknown" in how space navigation is performed, but I'm more inclined to conclude from the pattern of the posts that we're dealing with a troll. Could be an idiot, though! I'll reserve judgment until I see a response to the bootprint issue.
|
|
Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
|
Post by Bob B. on Jun 2, 2005 18:29:29 GMT -4
OK so we're dealing with a nine year old, a troll or an idiot. It definitely looks like trollish behavior to me.
|
|
|
Post by JayUtah on Jun 2, 2005 18:39:34 GMT -4
Earth satellites are at a ridiculous distance in comparison with 500 million kilometers of Mars.
But Earth-orbiting satellites obey the same laws of orbital mechanics as Mars-bound space probes. That's the beauty of orbital mechanics -- the laws are general enough to be valid for all orbits, including interplanetary trajectories. So if Earth orbits work, then interplanetary transfer orbits work too. The only difference is the magnitude of the numbers in the equations. There's no qualitative barrier that must be overcome, therefore no murky corners from which to throw meaningless uncertainty.
|
|
|
Post by martin on Jun 2, 2005 20:17:14 GMT -4
OK so we're dealing with a nine year old, a troll or an idiot. It definitely looks like trollish behavior to me. Does any one think unknown has come to this forum before the interruption of the web site? I do not think he is xoox, ong, or wayne g, but this is only my opinion. Martin
|
|
|
Post by martin on Jun 2, 2005 20:40:41 GMT -4
But Earth-orbiting satellites obey the same laws of orbital mechanics as Mars-bound space probes. That's the beauty of orbital mechanics -- the laws are general enough to be valid for all orbits, including interplanetary trajectories. So if Earth orbits work, then interplanetary transfer orbits work too. The only difference is the magnitude of the numbers in the equations. There's no qualitative barrier that must be overcome, therefore no murky corners from which to throw meaningless uncertainty. This is a different thing, but from discussion on this forum before (or maybe in some other forum, I can not remmeber), I have bought the book of Bate, Mueller, and White. This book can help to understand motion of planets and also spacecraft. So far, the only need for knowledge of physics is the second law of Newton. Any one who can understand this and also calculus and linear algebra can understand this book with no problem. So if any one likes to learn more on this topic, I think this is a good book to read. But if some one is having trouble with calculus or linear algebra, then I think this book will give him a big problem... Martin
|
|
Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
|
Post by Bob B. on Jun 2, 2005 20:59:53 GMT -4
Does any one think unknown has come to this forum before the interruption of the web site? I do not think he is xoox, ong, or wayne g, but this is only my opinion. Martin The person from the old-Apollohoax forum that unknown reminds me most of is EarthOrbit. If you recall, EO refused to engage in debate and just kept repeating the same nonsense over and over. Sound familiar?
|
|
|
Post by LunarOrbit on Jun 2, 2005 21:08:10 GMT -4
I wish I could look at the IP address records from the old forum to confirm that.
|
|
Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
|
Post by Bob B. on Jun 2, 2005 21:14:40 GMT -4
I know xoox and ong were banned from the old forum but we didn't have to do that with EarthOrbit, did we? As I recall, we just ignored him until he got bored and went away, right?
|
|
|
Post by LunarOrbit on Jun 2, 2005 21:20:42 GMT -4
Yeah, I think so.
|
|
|
Post by martin on Jun 2, 2005 21:44:35 GMT -4
Does any one think unknown has come to this forum before the interruption of the web site? I do not think he is xoox, ong, or wayne g, but this is only my opinion. Martin The person from the old-Apollohoax forum that unknown reminds me most of is EarthOrbit. If you recall, EO refused to engage in debate and just kept repeating the same nonsense over and over. Sound familiar? I did not think on this possibility, but I do not have a strong memory of EarthOrbit. I have only joined the forum in September, I think, then I am finding a new job and moving from Asia to New York. So I have other things to think on than Apollohoax forum at this time Also, I had to stop typing to go outside to see an iridium flare. Probably these are hoax also Martin
|
|
Bob B.
Bob the Excel Guru?
Posts: 3,072
|
Post by Bob B. on Jun 3, 2005 8:28:31 GMT -4
Shouldn't this thread be moved to "Other Conspiracy Theories"?
|
|