Doubts about 'chemtrails'

[turbonium]

Regarding "trails", I wrote..

"The oddest ones include single trails which go off at 90 degree angles..."

I bet they'd look odd. But if you think about it, how could that be a function of the material being sprayed out of a plane? Consider *anything* you chuck out of a plane, and what choices are likely to do something like that? Unless they were nanobots flying in formation, the only logical explanation to me is that what you see is a result of wind.

I've actually seen the formation of these trails, watching the aircraft flying above, at high altitudes in a clear blue sky, make a 90 degree (or other) shift in its flight path. And I've also seen the crosshatch patterns being created. They are quite strange sights, indeed.

Another thing I've noticed is that these jets seem to fly and make these manouvers/ trail formations on the clearest, cloud-free mornings to early afternoons.

When it's partly or very cloudy, and/or raining, these high-flying jets are rarely seen or heard (in case clouds would possibly obscure a ground-based view of them).

Wouldn't it be possible to prove if anything unusual really is expelled from these trails - likely by ground sample collection methods? These trails don't dissipate and evaporate very quickly - they expand or "stretch out" for hours afterwards and create a thin white "overcast" sky. It would seem that any possible particulates within them would take a fair while to hit the earth......

I have no idea what the purpose is for these radical manouvers. The only thing that compares to it occur during some of the tricks performed at Air Shows I've attended, but of course those were done at low altitudes for entertainment!

[PeterB]

Sorry Turbonium, my mistake. You're saying that as the trail is laid down, it changes course by up to 90 degrees?

But isn't that then simply a function of the plane changing course? What's so unusual about that? I know most air corridors are straight lines between cities, but I also know that planes occasionally have to change course.

Canberra, where I live, is under the Sydney-Melbourne flight path. This is the busiest flight path in Australia, so I see contrails most days. On many occasions I've seen planes perform a graceful turn of about 60 degrees, then steadily reverse the turn, to end up on their original heading, but several kilometres to the side. I assume they've been redirected to avoid oncoming traffic.

You say you've also seen crosshatch patterns made. Well, perhaps two flight paths happen to intersect over where you live. Out of interest, where do you live?

You say you've noticed the trails are made on clear, cloud-free mornings to early afternoons. Do you realise that contrails are the result of cold air condensing water vapour from the fuel exhaust of planes? Contrails won't form if the air is too warm (relatively speaking), or too humid. So you're probably less likely to see contrails on cloudy days.

Finally, remember that commercial, passenger-carrying jets aren't the only planes which fly across countries. Cargo planes and private jets also fly around, as well as planes on scientific or military missions, and none of them is likely to follow established commercial flight paths. On another forum, someone was completely baffled at the sight of a contrail which travelled over his city, but which didn't appear to have come from the direction of any other city. He seemed to have absolutely no idea that there are jets flying around up there which aren't commercial passenger carriers.

[lenbrazil]

Turbonium - Are you familiar with the Wellstone case? The flight plath from the Twin ities to Eveleth, MN (his destionation) was flying due North until due East of the town and then making a 90 degree turn to the left.

Evan can you provide more info about this?

I also wonder why the NWO/MIC hasn't found away to sprar these chemicals without leaving such obvious trails. Presumably most of what is being sprayed is the delivery agent not the active compond. I imagine spraying by crop dusters is intentionally visable so that the pilot can be sure he is spraying the right area.

[Al Johnston]

I blame Zorro...

[twinstead]

Turbonium please don't say you believe in Chemtrails

[turbonium]

Turbonium please don't say you believe in Chemtrails

Don't worry, twin . I'm not saying I believe in the whole "chemtrail" conspiracy at all. As I mentioned, I haven't really looked into the subject very much, and I'm unaware of any solid evidence for it. It would seem to me that it would require empirical evidence, garnered through chemical particulate studies, etc.

[twinstead]

turbonium said:

Turbonium please don't say you believe in Chemtrails

Don't worry, twin . I'm not saying I believe in the whole "chemtrail" conspiracy at all. As I mentioned, I haven't really looked into the subject very much, and I'm unaware of any solid evidence for it. It would seem to me that it would require empirical evidence, garnered through chemical particulate studies, etc.

Phew! ;D

[frenat]

The only "samples" that have ever been collected and tested were ground samples and rainwater. They have not to date obtained and tested any samples from the air in the contrail. The problem with this is on the ground there are numerous contamination sources with the biggest obvious one being pollution. You just can't conclusively claim that some substance you find on the ground came from a contrail 30,000 feet up. Yet that is exactly what the "chemtrail" believers try to do.

[turbonium]

I was unaware that airborne sample collections have not been done - but they could be done, no?

[frenat]

They could be but nobody has bothered to do it. They are probably just scared that it really is only water vapor and then the cash cow stops.

[turbonium]

That may be a valid point, regarding the profits to be made. Until (or if) airborne collections and analyses are done showing otherwise, I won't change my opinion that the chemtrail conspiracy is unproven.

[frenat]

You can never really prove it either way. Even is some planes were to be proven to be spraying something, persistent contrail formation is still explainable by well known science and there will still be normal planes with normal contrails that happen to look exactly like the deadly "chemtrails".

On another note, I actually had a believer tell on GLP that rainwater contained more aluminum and barium than the FDA allows. That was his biggest "proof" for chemtrails. As if the FDA had any control over pollution.

[turbonium]

Even is some planes were to be proven to be spraying something, persistent contrail formation is still explainable by well known science and there will still be normal planes with normal contrails that happen to look exactly like the deadly "chemtrails".

You mean proving a "global" scale conspiracy, as opposed to proving malfeasance at regional levels? I suppose so - but I wouldn't be too pleased if it was proven to exist at all. Spraying pesticides on local crops is more than enough, thank you..

[frenat]

I doubt there is even a national conspiracy. The Air Force only has so many tankers and they are kept very busy supporting Iraq, Afghanistan and other various missions. What's more, they are built on the 707 airframe(most of them anyway). This is and old airframe and no airline in the US uses it anymore. This makes it hard to find parts for it and consequently a fair amount of tankers sit on the ramp because repairs take longer. The Air Force just doesn't have the resources to do what the chemtrail believers say they are doing.

[sts60]

Going back to lenbrazil's first post in this thread - he is correct that it would be pointless to spray any kind of agent from the altitudes involved. That's one of the things you learn in hazmat/terrorism classes. The agent would be dispersed and diluted to harmless levels, and generally destroyed by exposure to UV anyway.

Chemtrails just don't make any sense. But when people really want to believe something, you cannot make them see reason with a cattle prod. (Not that it's not fun to try sometime; mine is nestled in its wall charger right now...)