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Post by scooter on Jul 6, 2007 23:02:14 GMT -4
Is it an accurate statement that depleted uranium=nuclear waste?
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jul 6, 2007 23:20:37 GMT -4
I suppose nuclear by product might be a better term, it relates mostly to a a significantly high amount of 238U than in other accepted terms or U as a fissile material, a lot of the material used to make DU munitions did come from the seperation process though, (and prob from demilitarised fissile weapon components similar to the 3He stock, and who said the arms race didn't give us anything )
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Post by sts60 on Jul 7, 2007 0:31:32 GMT -4
You don't have to be Einstein to figure out that using concentrated nuclear waste
"Nuclear waste" doesn't mean anything. Lead-208 is nuclear waste, and it is stable. Are you are trying to imply that DU rounds are significantly radioactive? It's already been pointed out that U-238 is not, with a half life in the billions of years. If you want to discuss possible radioactivity from other elements, feel free, but I don't have the time to participate in that discussion. I will only note in passing that I've been where DU rounds are tested, and the precautions taken by the staff are not for high levels of radiation.
as a projectile which is known to turn to insoluble micron sized particles
I didn't say anything about the solubility of DU round components. I discussed plutonium oxide fuel solubility. Furthermore, insolubility is a good thing; it makes it easier to clean up and harder for the body to absorb.
is not a great idea.
All kinetic weapons, including tungsten penetrators, will create dust. Without getting into the specifics of DU weapons and their aftereffects - which I am not qualified to discuss - I will stipulate that there is a general problem of making weapons with fewer aftereffects.
There is, of course, a more general problem of making things so that such weapons are not needed. Mankind, though, has proven ingenious at killing large numbers of his fellows with advanced weapons, primitive weapons, or no weapons at all.
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Post by 3onthetree on Jul 7, 2007 9:47:52 GMT -4
Is it an accurate statement that depleted uranium=nuclear waste? Yes, just that it is not spent fuel waste which if these megalomaniacs were let totally of the leash they would dig up and start spreading around third world countries. There is no defence against the use of DU munitions, there is literally reams of circumstantial evidence that it it linked to massive increases in cancer, leukaemia and birth defects.It has been widely reported to be responsible for Balkan Syndrome and Gulf war syndrome in returning Coalition troops. Not that some should have been surprised.
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Post by gillianren on Jul 7, 2007 14:20:19 GMT -4
Actually, my understanding is that a decomposing body can, in fact, be great for local soil conditions, depending on what they were in the first place. Hence early American settlers being taught by the Native Americans to bury fish in the ground with their corn.
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Post by etac on Jul 7, 2007 21:06:28 GMT -4
Documentation? And remember, anecdote is not the plural of datum.
You'd better keep clear of the Rocky mountains then. Lots of U-238 there in its naturally occuring state. Better yet, stay out of any building made of granite. Lots of uraniuim there too. Don't pull the old "all radioactivity is evil" garbage. There's a certain background level we're all exposed too and the use of DU doesn't do much to increase that over background.
The reason the military used depleted uranium had nothing to do with radioactivity and everything to do with density. When making an anti-armor projectile a small, dense projectile is ideal. U-238 is denser than tungsten and makes an ideal anti-tank round. So spare us the "megalomania" rhetoric triplet in tree. The reason U-238 was chosen was pure economics and perhaps some stupidity. You make it sound like there was a secret meeting where people said "Ha, lets take this mildly radioactive metal and use it in weapons to poison people and the environment." It was more likely "Hey, we've got lots of this stuff, around, what else are we going to do with it?"
In any case, for future conflicts, the point is moot. The US has phased DU out of the inventory and replaced it with W alloys.
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Post by nomuse on Jul 7, 2007 21:22:03 GMT -4
The first thing I mention to the "DU projectiles are wicked radioactive weapons of mass destruction" is to remind them DU is used for armor on those same tanks. And in case they argue we don't mind putting soldiers at risk, in trim tabs for (well, older) commercial airliners. The second thing is that it is, well, depleted. Meaning less of the active 235 than in naturally occurring uranium. Of course, isotope ratio aside the uranium itself is a bit more concentrated than it is in its natural habitat!
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Post by Grand Lunar on Jul 8, 2007 22:50:57 GMT -4
Seems that the issue of fear over reasoning is at the heart of the issue with the DU debate.
And you've provided a good voice of reason, EtaC. Kudos! Isn't DU also NOT prone to become dust?
Do you mean when in flight, or just lying on the ground? If the latter, then I suppose you do not know of anti-contamination clothing.
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Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
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Post by Jason on Jul 9, 2007 0:12:17 GMT -4
"It's radioactive, therefore it must be evil."
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Post by captain swoop on Jul 9, 2007 10:36:46 GMT -4
DU is also used in Yacht keels
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furi
Mars
The Secret is to keep banging those rocks together.
Posts: 260
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Post by furi on Jul 9, 2007 11:40:05 GMT -4
It would make fantastically slim barrels for darts ;D, (espescially if you play with 36+ gm darts even W gets too fat at that point)
<OT Rant>plus with the smoking ban now in pubs I am sure the dangers of playing darts and drinking beer is next on the anti-fun leagues list</rant>
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Post by Ranb on Jul 9, 2007 12:29:10 GMT -4
DU is also used as shielding on some radiography cameras. The DU shield is less bulky than a lead shield.
Ranb
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Post by nomuse on Jul 9, 2007 16:49:01 GMT -4
Heh, That's cute...."It's so radioactive, we use it to shield film!"
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Post by AstroSmurf on Jul 9, 2007 17:13:03 GMT -4
It would probably block X-rays better than lead, true. Perhaps radiology labs could use it for their protective aprons?
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Post by PhantomWolf on Jul 9, 2007 18:32:44 GMT -4
<OT Rant>plus with the smoking ban now in pubs I am sure the dangers of playing darts and drinking beer is next on the anti-fun leagues list</rant> [ot reply]I for one like the smoking ban in pubs here. I have to admit that I don't go there often, but now with work dos and such I am there more regularly than before, and not having smoke about is wonderful, I can actually breathe and I don't come home smelling like a smoked ham. I used to voluteer at a dance we had here, and before they banned smoking it was terrible, the atmosphere in the cloak area was worse than the dance floor, which had a smoke machine!! Going outside to get fresh air there was so much smoke pouring out of the windows that you'd have thought the place was on fire! Smoking is an awful habbit, and one that substantially affects the enviroment of other people. I have a right to fresh clean air, and if you smoke around me you are taking away my rights to breath clean air and to go home without smelling like you do. If you want to smoke, fine, but do it away from me.[/ot reply]
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