Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 12:51:19 GMT -4
Again, who gets to decide which alternative "theories" get to be in the NPS bookstores? Why not a book about Pan Gu? Why not a book about Ame-no-Minaka-Nushi-no-Mikoto? Tepeu and Gucumatz? They are just as relevant. Sure. If they're talking about the Grand Canyon then why not sell them in the Grand Canyon National Park bookstore?
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 15, 2008 12:53:55 GMT -4
This Panda'sThumb article about trying to ban books from National Parks is not about defending or improving the nation's educational standards. It's about attempting to censor the views of those he disagrees with. It's about the arrogant pride in knowing more than the ignorant masses, and condescending to prove that he was the one who was right all along. And it's about the fear of religion. Not selling a book through the National Park Service book store is not banning. It is not selling it at the NPS book store. Banning would be trying to keep the book from being published or trying to keep people from reading it. That is not what he is promoting.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 12:57:12 GMT -4
Not selling a book through the National Park Service book store is not banning. It is not selling it at the NPS book store. Banning would be trying to keep the book from being published or trying to keep people from reading it. That is not what he is promoting. You're ignoring the major points of my post by dwelling on the minutae. If the author could reasonably prevent the books from being printed in the first place I'm sure he would do so. And reducing the number of stores a book can be sold in is an attempt to reduce a books readership - in other words, to keep more people from reading it.
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 15, 2008 13:03:09 GMT -4
If the author could reasonably prevent the books from being printed in the first place I'm sure he would do so. And reducing the number of stores a book can be sold in is an attempt to reduce a books readership - in other words, to keep more people from reading it. That is ridiculous, Jason. Where do you get the idea that the author wants a worldwide ban on the book? He (and I) just don't want it sold at the NPS book store.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 13:22:18 GMT -4
Because the attitude I'm reading from him is what I described earlier - an arrogant disdain of creationists as intellectual inferiors. Isn't that what that whole website is about?
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Post by wdmundt on Jan 15, 2008 13:28:50 GMT -4
I have disdain for creationists and I don't want a worldwide ban on their books. And the point isn't the author's attitude, it is that the NPS bookstore is selling books that promote creationism and that a branch of the United States Government should not be doing that.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 13:36:58 GMT -4
I have no problem with National Park bookstores selling whatever they want. It's tourists buying the books, not us. And having a book for sale in your store is not an endorsement of its contents.
And I still think what is sold in NP bookstores doesn't show anything about the Bush Administration's attitude towards science either way.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 15, 2008 13:52:20 GMT -4
And I still think what is sold in NP bookstores doesn't show anything about the Bush Administration's attitude towards science either way. Does this tell you something about Bush's attitude towards science? I wonder if Bush also believes that the Qur'an should be taught in public schools? You know... so children can be exposed to different ideas. I doubt it. He supports intelligent design because it is a Bible story masquerading as a scientific theory. If there is no substance to a theory it shouldn't be taught in science class. We don't teach students about fairies and unicorns, about Bigfoot or Nazi bases in the center of the Earth, or about UFOs... so why should we teach Intelligent Design?
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 13:58:34 GMT -4
Well, he's wrong that intelligent design is a valid alternative theory but he's right that it's a good thing to expose kids to different ideas. And he's right that such decisions should be made by schoold boards rather than the Fedral government.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 14:00:55 GMT -4
Also, Intelligent Design by itself is not going to lead anyone to the Bible or into Christianity.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 15, 2008 14:01:49 GMT -4
So do you think we should teach kids that the moon landings "might have been faked", just to expose them to different ideas? Who decides if the theory is valid?
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 14:02:15 GMT -4
And I think students should be taught something about what's in the Koran in schools. The better to understand people who attempt to live by that book.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 15, 2008 14:03:02 GMT -4
Also, Intelligent Design by itself is not going to lead anyone to the Bible or into Christianity. Maybe, maybe not... but it's certainly going to lead some people away from science. They might not make the connection with ID's Bible origins, but if they believe it they are believing in something that is little more than magic.
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Jason
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Post by Jason on Jan 15, 2008 14:04:00 GMT -4
So do you think we should teach kids that the moon landings "might have been faked", just to expose them to different ideas? Who decides if the theory is valid? I would have no problem with a course that taught about moon hoax theories, especially if it were accompanied by Apollo defenders punching holes in the hoaxes. It would be a good exercise in critical thinking.
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Post by LunarOrbit on Jan 15, 2008 14:07:15 GMT -4
I would have no problem with a course that taught about moon hoax theories, especially if it were accompanied by Apollo defenders punching holes in the hoaxes. It would be a good exercise in critical thinking. Do Intelligent Design courses include all the information that punch holes in it? Is it a critical thinking exercise, or is it promoting a belief?
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