|
Post by wdmundt on Mar 10, 2008 18:53:48 GMT -4
Arguing that there is no reason to believe in God is a very different argument than arguing there is no God. An argument that there is no God would involve arguing reasons for why there is no God -- arguing that there is no reason to believe in God is to argue about reasons for believing. But an argument that there is no reason to believe is an argument that there is no evidence, and an argument that there is no evidence for a thing's existence is an argument that a thing doesn't exist, because anything that exists effects other things, producing evidence that it exists. Arguing that there is no reason to believe would be part of an argument that God does not exist, but it is not the argument itself. Not being able to find it means that it is evidence that we do not have and can't be used as evidence for the existence of a thing. Evidence that we do not have is not evidence of any kind and the suggestion that such evidence exists is only speculation. You brought it up.
|
|
|
Post by altair4 on Mar 10, 2008 18:56:24 GMT -4
sorry ginnie,I was only trying to be nice
I still don't like that freemason stuff(but yeah I know they do good as well)
can you get in touch with me please:paulleeks@hotmail.com
|
|
|
Post by LunarOrbit on Mar 10, 2008 19:11:10 GMT -4
Altair4,
Why do you keep insisting that Ginnie contact you? If he hasn't by now he probably doesn't want to. And to be honest, I would be very reluctant to send an email to a total stranger who was so eager to get one from me. I would expect to get my inbox flooded with spam (or worse).
|
|
|
Post by Ginnie on Mar 10, 2008 19:44:39 GMT -4
I PM'd altair4 and told him to PM me back if he wishes. So far he hasn't, and maybe thats a good thing. ;D I'm kidding altair4 - just don't send me any jokes. I'm not giving out my email address to anyone on a forum. Wait, I did give it to kiwi, but I sense I could trust him with my life for some reason - plus it was the only way to get the NASA DVD's commentaries!
|
|
|
Post by Ginnie on Mar 10, 2008 19:52:21 GMT -4
sorry ginnie,I was only trying to be nice I still don't like that freemason stuff(but yeah I know they do good as well) can you get in touch with me please:paulleeks@hotmail.com Like I said, send me a Personal Message through this board if you'd like. That's just as good as email.
|
|
Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
|
Post by Jason on Mar 10, 2008 20:29:34 GMT -4
Arguing that there is no reason to believe would be part of an argument that God does not exist, but it is not the argument itself. Aha! If it's part of an argument then you are making an argument. So why isn't the suggestion that such evidence doesn't exist only speculation?
|
|
|
Post by Ginnie on Mar 10, 2008 20:52:57 GMT -4
Arguing that there is no reason to believe would be part of an argument that God does not exist, but it is not the argument itself. Aha! If it's part of an argument then you are making an argument. So why isn't the suggestion that such evidence doesn't exist only speculation? Did both you guys take courses in Logic or something? I'm getting dizzy trying to follow these posts. Must be my simplemindedness again... ;D
|
|
Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
|
Post by Jason on Mar 10, 2008 21:46:29 GMT -4
I did take some logic courses in college, actually.
|
|
|
Post by Data Cable on Mar 11, 2008 3:05:48 GMT -4
..small inner voice,independent of ones consciouness I've already established that this is a moderately-sized external voice, that of your personal invisible pink unicorn. Points are, by definition, zero-dimensional. So please make up your mind which it is, a dimension or a point. In what units is this energy measured? ...what?
|
|
Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
|
Post by Jason on Mar 11, 2008 11:01:47 GMT -4
God exist!! and makes himself known "from within"..small inner voice,independent of ones consciouness Out of all the things altair4 has posted on these forums, I do agree with at least this one. It's not an "invisible pink unicorn" - God really can make Himself known as a "small inner voice, independent of ones [sic] consciousness".
|
|
Al Johnston
"Cheer up!" they said, "It could be worse!" So I did, and it was.
Posts: 1,453
|
Post by Al Johnston on Mar 11, 2008 11:04:45 GMT -4
That's just what the Invisible Pink Unicorn wants you to think ;D
|
|
|
Post by Data Cable on Mar 11, 2008 13:37:06 GMT -4
Actually, invisible pink unicorns get rather miffed when their influence is attributed to some sort of noncorporeal god.
|
|
|
Post by wdmundt on Mar 11, 2008 14:09:34 GMT -4
Arguing that there is no reason to believe would be part of an argument that God does not exist, but it is not the argument itself. Aha! If it's part of an argument then you are making an argument. Err... no. It's part of an argument I'm not making. If I did make an argument that God doesn't exist, I would use as part of my argument the idea that there is no reason to believe there is a god. If I made such an argument. Because evidence you don't have is not evidence. You can speculate that there is evidence, but until you show that there is evidence there just isn't evidence. I don't have to speculate that non-existent evidence might not exist because I can show that it does not exist.
|
|
Jason
Pluto
May all your hits be crits
Posts: 5,579
|
Post by Jason on Mar 11, 2008 14:44:49 GMT -4
Aha! If it's part of an argument then you are making an argument. Err... no. It's part of an argument I'm not making. If I did make an argument that God doesn't exist, I would use as part of my argument the idea that there is no reason to believe there is a god. If I made such an argument. You are at least laying the foundation for such an argument. Alright then. If you really believe you can prove a negative, go ahead and show me that no evidence exists.
|
|
|
Post by wdmundt on Mar 11, 2008 14:58:17 GMT -4
In this context, I am saying that there is no reason to believe that God or a god exists. There is no evidence that God or a god exists. Claims that there is a god are not supported by evidence and must ultimately rely on an appeal to faith.
I do not have to refute evidence that does not exist. If you would like to show that there is a non faith-based reason to believe that God exists, I encourage you to share.
|
|