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Post by JayUtah on Feb 22, 2008 20:45:40 GMT -4
you always take things to unintended ways.
You cannot raise even the possibility of a human-alien hybrid without confronting the implications of there being only one solitary specimen. I'm not "taking" this anywhere -- it is a necessary antecedent to your supposition.
This is a possible explanation that has yet to be proven.
But it's silly to think about proving it to be a hybrid until it's known whether it's a hybrid species. Why is that so hard to grasp?
I diagree.
You're welcome to your disagreement, but I have some experience in statistical morphology of hominid skulls, and I'll keep my own opinion.
Many other explanations that can be true are mentioned in the above site...
Exactly -- and given the nature of the evidence, any of those conclusions are more likely to be true than the fanciful claims of people who want to see space aliens.
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 22, 2008 20:48:34 GMT -4
The mere possibility of interbreeding between human species is discussed by many scientists...
But the interbreeding of different species of hominid species has nothing to do with the alleged interbreeding of humans and space aliens. You're handwaving.
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 22, 2008 20:56:06 GMT -4
according to Pye's site...
I don't accept Lloyd Pye as an authority. He is trying to promote the skull and its alleged half-alien origin for his own benefit. He is clearly biased, saying he expects the skull to be vindicated as that of a Gray alien, or a Gray-human hybrid. He has clearly reached his conclusion before the investigation has occurred.
Since Pye has no apparent training in anthropology or osteology, and since his findings are clearly rejected by those who do, I will not accept his opinion as authoritative.
Nor do his anonymous expert quotations convince me.
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 22, 2008 20:59:54 GMT -4
Respected craniofacial surgeon Dr. Ted Robinson...
Other doctors don't seem to have a problem with the untreated hydrocephalus diagnosis.
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Post by lionking on Feb 23, 2008 7:48:54 GMT -4
did you see that you take things were they are not intended? I said in previous posts that I totally disagree with alien interbreeding. I was discussing human species interbreeding.
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Post by lionking on Feb 23, 2008 8:24:15 GMT -4
can you post a site please? thnx
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Post by RAF on Feb 23, 2008 10:41:42 GMT -4
did you see that you take things were they are not intended? If you did not "intend" to discuss the alien interbreeding idea, then why did you post links to Lloyd Pye's site??
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 23, 2008 12:13:13 GMT -4
I said in previous posts that I totally disagree with alien interbreeding.
Then stop quoting as evidence sources that argue for it. Lloyd Pye staunchly believes the skull in his possession is that of an alien-human hybrid.
I was discussing human species interbreeding.
Are we discussing hominid interbreeding in general? I thought we were discussing the so-called Starchild skull. If we are, please explain how you believe early hominid interbreeding and the Starchild skull are related.
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 23, 2008 12:14:16 GMT -4
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Post by lionking on Feb 23, 2008 13:29:37 GMT -4
and J :
I was trying to show the argument he introduced agaisnt deformity only. I said in post #27 that I disagree with the alien inteerbreeding.
I ws saying that in theory, maybe ther was some human species whose genes are compatible with ours like the genes of the horse and the donkey, and we could interbreed with them and produce some new subspecies, like the Starchild. However, this needs a lot of proof, like finding a fathr of different human species that has some characteristics of the Starchild.
I am still looking into thesite you posted.
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Post by lionking on Feb 23, 2008 14:12:40 GMT -4
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocephalusfrom the photo in the site above, I think the swell of the head looks similar but not the eyes. Maybe this is what Pyre refers to as nothing like any known disease was similar to the skull he found and he means exactly similar ? In all cases, it might be such a deformity, but I would like to see more photos of skulls that look almost exactly like the skull of the Starchild. That would be better proof, and if more physicians can testify about the skull being of the described disease would also harden the proof.
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Post by lionking on Feb 23, 2008 14:24:27 GMT -4
"Novella points out that if a child suffered from untreated hydrocephalus until age four or five, their skull would display distortions in almost every feature. All of the proper bones, prominences, holes, and sutures would be present, as they are in the Starchild skull (except for its missing inion on the occipital), but they would be deformed and displaced, as they are in the Starchild skull. Some cases of hydrocephalus can build up over time, so a child with this disorder could survive several years, and if untreated (today hydrocephalus is treatable with surgery to drain the fluid) would probably die at several years of age. However, hydrocephalus would not thin the bone as uniformly as the Starchild's has been thinned throughout its cranium, nor would it produce the high level of symmetry that the Starchild displays. The resulting large bulbous head would be vaguely reminiscent of the typical image of a gray alien.[4]" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Pye#Criticismalthough it is not exactly similar to the symptoms, but another theory can be that it was a rare ancient disease similar to Hydrocephalus that wasn't diagnosed properlt then and didn't reoccur in modern days.
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 23, 2008 18:21:48 GMT -4
I was trying to show the argument he introduced agaisnt deformity only.
Fair enough; but I doubt that his skepticism of deformity is motivated by anything besides his desire for continued notoreity.
I said in post #27 that I disagree with the alien inteerbreeding.
Again, fair enough; but that's what Pye is all about. It's not enough just to reject Pye's positive claims; his refutations are equally biased.
...we could interbreed with them and produce some new subspecies, like the Starchild.
And my argument there is still the reference to morphology.
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 23, 2008 18:25:33 GMT -4
Maybe this is what Pyre refers to as nothing like any known disease was similar to the skull he found and he means exactly similar ?
Unfortunately Lloyd Pye is not qualified to make that determination.
In all cases, it might be such a deformity, but I would like to see more photos of skulls that look almost exactly like the skull of the Starchild.
Ad hoc revision. When you were arguing that Pye's skull might be some hybrid species, you were reasonably content with a single specimen. Now that some prosaic explanation comes to the fore, you want more samples. Sorry, but your standard of proof changes depending on whether the hypothesis is ordinary or exotic.
Can you show any two hydrocephalic crania that are reasonably identical?
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Post by JayUtah on Feb 23, 2008 18:30:25 GMT -4
"...However, hydrocephalus would not thin the bone as uniformly as the Starchild's has been thinned throughout its cranium, nor would it produce the high level of symmetry that the Starchild displays. The resulting large bulbous head would be vaguely reminiscent of the typical image of a gray alien.[4]"
The reference given is to the skeptical article I previously linked, in which a physician actually argues against the claims in this paragraph. There is no actual medical authority cited for the characterization of hydrocephaly (e.g., thinning and symmetry) Wikipedia has presented here.
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