"The hardest thing to believe...

[altair4]

I like the quote: "the hardest thing to believe is reality itself"-Dostoevsky

very true!! I don't think anyone would argue with that one.

nice to be back

Paul,NZ

[lionking]

depends on reality, right?

[trevor]

I prefer the quote: "there ain't no bones in ice cream" - Cosmo Carboni.

[altair4]

Lion King

I wasn't looking for a philosophical response I was just making a point!(what happens in life)


But anyway since your thoughts lead to your actions,and your actions lead to your thoughts,would you say that YOUR reality is a MIRROR of your mind..in a sense?and that YOU are what you have experienced in life and this helps create YOUR REALITY..positive and negative?the ONLY person that knows YOU is YOU!(the best psychologist in the world doesn't know what goes on in your head..so what has experience taught you?if you can be honest with yourself

as for me I was watching my space dvds yesterday and over a century ago humans thought it was impossible to fly now there is the International Space Station!!!!

OBTW I still think(my opinion) Richard Pearse (Kiwi) flew before the Wright Brothers he was seen to leave the ground about 6 months before the wright brothers he also had patents for using ailerons,the Wright Brothers used wing warping..(but I do think the wright brothers had more control at the time)modern aircraft STILL use ailerons!!

personally I think the 1st to fly were probably the Egyptians or Hindus perhaps....

what is my reality...I go on logic and experience

Richard Pearse was an innovator so am I, I belong to an organisation called Kiwiingenuity ands it amazing what can be achieved with so little

have a nice day!!

Paul

[JayUtah]

...and that YOU are what you have experienced in life and this helps create YOUR REALITY..positive and negative?

Certainly one's experience contributes to and defines one's perception of the universe. And that will be his reality in terms of how his actions may be guided. However it doesn't create a reality that affects the actual behavior of the universe, or which others may be obliged to respect.

There is a reasonably objective reality, and our attempts at discovering it and harnessing it (or unharnessing it, if you will) for our benefit is precisely the exercise of stripping away imaginary or subjective impressions.

Who was the first to fly depends on how the problem is characterized. Flight that is sustained, powered, and controlled is the important hurdle. The Wrights were only barely ahead of many of their competitors. Pearse achieved power and sustenance, but lacked control. Langley had as much control, more power, but lacked sustenance because his structural design was incorrect. The Wrights had control but lacked power. The Wrights were simply the ones to get the whole formula right.

Ailerons are easier to engineer than wing-warping for large scale wings, especially for monoplanes. That's why we use them. However, ailerons and other discrete control surfaces introduce discontinuities in the slipstream. Not a problem for most aircraft, but at higher Mach numbers and with greater concern for efficiency, wing-warping again becomes more attractive and is being pursued. There is no inherent advantage to either approach: there is only the best solution for some particular set of needs.

[altair4]

Jay Utah!!

I see where where your coming from...also OMG imagine what planes will be like in the future?Are there design limits?are there no limits?who knows ....time will tell...I think in the future passenger flights will be using hypersonic/sub orbital technology

I still think the Egyptians or ancient Hindus were the 1st to fly....the Australian Aborigines use a boomerang shaped like an aerofoil,it creates lift!!

[Data Cable]

altair4 said:

I still think the Egyptians or ancient Hindus were the 1st to fly....the Australian Aborigines use a boomerang shaped like an aerofoil,it creates lift!!

But the seats on a boomerang are mighty cramped.

[trevor]

but at higher Mach numbers and with greater concern for efficiency, wing-warping again becomes more attractive and is being pursued

Oh great, I guess these will be a composite structure too. Time for some flexible UV proof resins then. It won't be a problem initially, but if these go into the new range of passenger aircraft, I hope the maintenance programs are very stringent. I work on composite aircraft and UV is still the biggest problem. Not enough is known about composites in many maintenance organisations, and the manufactures maintenance data is a joke in many instances.

[LunarOrbit]

datacable said:

altair4 said:

I still think the Egyptians or ancient Hindus were the 1st to fly....the Australian Aborigines use a boomerang shaped like an aerofoil,it creates lift!!

But the seats on a boomerang are mighty cramped.

And the person who threw it would have to be awfully strong.

[Ginnie]

Reality leaves a lot to the imagination. - John Lennon

Welcome back Altair4.

[JayUtah]

There are limits only in the sense that the quantities contemplated in design don't often behave linearly or favorably. Boomerangs fly at boomerang scale, but boomerangs scaled up to useful size do not. Hence there are design tradeoffs. We cannot change the laws of the universe, but we can cleverly set one law against another (e.g., pit the materials properties of new substances against the forces imposed in our problem). However that is never a single-dimension problem. As has been explained, if we move from aluminum to, say, composite, we have problems with materials breakdown under electromagnetic radiation. Navigating those multiple interactions and factors is what engineering is all about.

What will occur in the future? I'm sure I don't know. Even the most intelligent and thoughtful people tend to fail miserably to predict decades hence. That's because if we could take those grand leaps now, we would. But we can't. We'll do big miracles in decades because of the small, relentless miracles done every day and every year in between.

At this point I'm not aware of any wing-warping designs being contemplated for commercial airliners. However it is being contemplated for military designs. The military does not have to be commercially viable and can impose brutal maintenance regimes because of their highly dedicated and highly regimented operators. However, Boeing is poised to deliver the first composite fuselage: the 787 Dreamliner. This is a big experiment. How will it behave after 1,000 operational cycles? After 10,000?

[trevor]

I will be really interested to see how it handles hoop stress. Will it expand at all?
Jay have you ever been involved in a complete surface finish removal to check for osmosis?
Every square inch is checked for moisture and matrix break down and it is a HUGE job on a light aircraft or sailplane - I'd hate to think of the labour involved on an airliner. I cut my teeth on aluminium aircraft but I have been involved in composites for 10 years and it still makes me nervous.

[JayUtah]

Jay have you ever been involved in a complete surface finish removal to check for osmosis?

Thankfully no, but I'm glad others do it on my behalf.

I will be really interested to see how it handles hoop stress. Will it expand at all?

I would think so, but I wouldn't know by how much.

[reynoldbot]

aw snap we're getting all existential here now.

What was Bender's quote from Futurama? "Is it not possible, nay probable, that my entire life is just a figment of mine or someone else's imagination?"

I guess reality is what you make of it.

[gwiz]

altair4 said:

OBTW I still think(my opinion) Richard Pearse (Kiwi) flew before the Wright Brothers he was seen to leave the ground about 6 months before the wright brothers he also had patents for using ailerons,the Wright Brothers used wing warping..(but I do think the wright brothers had more control at the time)modern aircraft STILL use ailerons!!

While I feel I should support Richard Pearse (Cornishman), I have to agree with Jay that the Wrights were the ones who first put the whole package together. They achieved a 38 minute flight in 1905, and when they came to Europe in 1908 their competitors were amazed both by such long durations and by the Wrights' mastery of control.